Show Notes

• The travel bug
• Funding the trip
• Expedition 196
• The quest to set a Guinness world record
• How she endured the best/work experience of her life
• Solo travel
• What Cassie learned about people
• Cassie’s “why”
• There is no finish line
• Her International

Connect With Cassie DePecol

Website: www.cassiedepecol.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cassiedepecol
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cassiedepecol/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassandra-de-pecol-6b984921/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/cassiedepecol
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CassieDePecol
TikTok: @cassiedepecol

Summary

At the age of 27, Cassie De Pecol became the fastest person – and the first woman – on record to travel alone to every country in the world. She discusses her incredible 18-month journey, and offers advice on facing fears, overcoming obstacles, and living the life of your dreams.

Full Transcript

Cassie  

At some point in our lives, we become inspired and almost transcended by the actions of others whom we look up to with awe. Some of us so much so that we want to march to the beat of their drum, to frolic in their footsteps and to taste the air that they breathe.

Brian  

Those words were written by Cassie De Pecol and Cassie is one of those awe inspiring people. Considered the most prolific traveler of her time, Cassie took off in July of 2015 in a 196 country solo expedition, in an effort to break a Guinness World Record to be the fastest person – and the first woman on record – to travel to every country in the world. In February of 2017, just one year and 193 days later, she did just that, and accomplished that remarkable feat. Cassie was also recognized in the National Women’s History Museum. Today, Cassie is the CEO of Expedition 196, and is also a keynote speaker, brand ambassador, Iron Man athlete, and the author of “Expedition 196:  A Personal Journal From The First Woman On Record To Travel To Every Country In The World”. Welcome, Cassie, and thanks for joining us on Life Excellence.

Cassie  

Thanks so much for having me, Brian. This is exciting. I’m happy to be here.

Brian  

Thank you. One of the very first thoughts that I had when I learned your story was that either you had a pretty basic normal childhood and your sense of adventure blossomed much later in life, or you grew up traveling as a child and your around the world adventure was merely that on steroids. Tell us about your childhood. I’m curious, where did your sense of adventure come from?

Cassie  

Well, I wish that I grew up traveling. I know that if I ever had a kid, they would grow up to be as worldly as possible, but I know that there are, obviously, finances that come in there and growing up we didn’t have too much to really spend. We were pretty frugal. I think my adventure came from moving a lot. Honestly, we kind of had to move houses quite often just because of my parents financial situation. So that involves moving schools, and eventually – junior year of high school – homeschooling myself to find whatever it was within me that I wanted to pursue. I didn’t know at the time it was travel, but I just wanted to do something different and find my passion. So I think growing up with an untraditional style of living and also schooling; I went to Montessori school, I went to public school and Waldorf school and then homeschooling. I transitioned between those different types of schools and moved around. I got so used to moving around that I knew I had to continue to do that, because that’s where I found my comfort. My yearning for travel started around the age of 18 when I was able to study abroad in Costa Rica. I booked that one way ticket and I never looked back from there. I started traveling. I was in Costa Rica and Nicaragua, living with a host family. Then I booked a one way ticket to Europe and tried to make as much money as possible on the road, which is like maybe $100 a month, just to afford the next ticket. That’s where the yearning really began for travel. I was able to see, oh, maybe I can make a career out of it, maybe I can pursue this in life, for my passion.

Brian  

So when did you first dream about traveling to every country in the world?

Cassie  

In high school, they gave us the opportunity to do a senior project and I thought it would be cool to go to every country, but I thought that was so, so out there. I mean, there’s no way, I didn’t even know where I’d begin. I didn’t have any women to look up to or any mentors in the field, so I just did a global warming awareness [project]. I traveled to around 24 or so countries when I was backpacking off little money and I thought, you know, there are so many countries out there, what if I did travel to every country in the world? Is that even possible? How many countries are there? There were so many questions. But I was, at that point of my life, I was around 24 and I was having a quarter life crisis and not sure what to do. I didn’t have a degree. I knew I loved travel but I wasn’t sure how I was going to follow that passion and turn it into a career. I thought maybe I can travel to every country and I just have to pour everything into that to make it happen. Maybe I can do it. I had actually seen this man named Eric Hill and he was on the front page of CNN; he was trying to travel to every country in the world at the time. I saw that he had actually passed away while he was in the midst of doing it and I became really inspired by his story. I reached out to his family then to just let them know and ask questions. They were really supportive of what I was wanting to do, to almost follow in his footsteps and travel to every country. Then from there, I learned more about the travel community and how to get started.

Brian  

So you were in your, I guess, early 20s, mid 20s, and you had this dream or this thought in the back of your mind about traveling to every country in the world. How did you get from everything that you had talked about, including contacting Mr. Hill’s family, getting from that “I’ve got this travel bug, I really like to travel” to really concretely thinking about and ultimately making the decision that I’m going to set out on this incredible quest to travel to every country in the world, and then set a couple Guinness records in the process?

Cassie  

First of all, I will say that I’m very open in talking about mental health and depression. That’s something I’ve struggled with since the age of 13. I was just really feeling fed up with with my life and yes, I had traveled a lot, and I developed great connections with people, but I wasn’t making any money. I didn’t know how I was going to make money for myself in the future to keep my head above water, really. I wasn’t sure what I was going to do with my career, and I was just completely lost. I was babysitting 80 hours a week, earning babysitter income and traveling long distances back and forth to these houses, like two hours round trip. And if I’m going to be able to support myself and build a career for myself and make that happen, I have to pour 110% of that into whatever it is I decided to do. And I thought, okay, I’m going to go to every country. I don’t know how I’m going to make it happen but I have to do my research, I have to educate myself, I have to try and attend conferences and network and find my vision and create my pitch and my deck and just build this and put everything into it. But it was at an all time low that I decided I really needed to make a change, and I needed to do it then and there. So that was my fuel at the time.

Brian  

That’s such an ambitious undertaking, though. I understand everything you talked about and yet I really commend you – and I’ll do that probably multiple times through the show – but why every country? And the other thing that I’m really curious about is why alone? I mean, I understand the love of travel and wanting to do that and maybe even making the leap to traveling to every country in the world, and alone is a whole different undertaking but you were intentional about that right from the beginning.

Cassie  

In my backpacking days, when I spent that two and a half years or so traveling, just backpacking and traveling those 24 or so countries, I really wanted to do it with a friend. I asked so many friends of mine, do want to come backpacking, traveling with me and they would say, let’s go, and then they backed out; it’s their finances or their job, or they just didn’t have the passion to do so. I thought it was a really disappointing thing, because I tried so hard to get them to travel with me. I did everything I could, I said everything I could, but at the end of the day, you can’t control people on what they want to do. So I thought, okay, I have to just do it on my own. So I got really used to traveling alone. I came to really enjoy that. I became a little bit more introverted, and I was – through traveling alone – able to learn more about cultures, because I was able to observe more and connect with strangers, as opposed to connecting with the person who I was traveling with. So when it came to my expedition,  I thought the chances of me getting a friend to go to every country in the world plus having to get double the funding for them to come too; I don’t even know where I’d begin with that. So I thought I just have to do it alone and I think it’ll be a really great learning experience for me. It’s something that I needed for myself at that time. And, again, it’s like, I was so young, so I didn’t really know. I knew there were 193 plus countries, but I didn’t really grasp how far and how much was involved with getting to those countries. So yeah, it was just…it was something I had to do. I just took that risk. I thought, it’s either this or babysit, really, for the rest of my life, which I didn’t want to do.

Brian  

You made a great choice. Do you think…was there a certain naivety? You mentioned you knew there were a lot of countries, 193 or whatever the number was, you knew it was a big number, something close to 200. I wouldn’t expect that you would have much of an appreciation…even traveling to 20 countries – and I don’t know over what period of time that took place – but that’s different than every country. And so why is that – because you have such a great sense of adventure? Or was it naivety? Or did it go – not to pry – but was part of where you were mentally, maybe something that you needed to do for yourself related to that?

Cassie  

I had my brother and I grew up with very supportive parents, we didn’t really have the money to do things, but they supported us in whatever we wanted to do; if we wanted to create a project, or…they at one point, they homeschooled us too. So they really unleashed that inner creativity in us and persuaded us to pursue whatever it was that we were passionate about and not go after the money in life. That’s something that they said; do what makes you happy. So I think them just being so mentally supportive and there for me was what was able to make me feel comfortable in doing this. Of course, going to places like North Korea and Syria and Afghanistan, they had reservations. But I don’t know, I think, yes, like I was pretty naive, I wasn’t sure what this was going to take. I had done a fair amount of traveling beforehand so I had somewhat of a grasp on traveling to, for example, Egypt alone. I knew I had to take precautions, I knew I had to be extra careful. I wasn’t about to go party. A lot of the things that I did before [when] backpacking I wasn’t able to do on this trip. There was also the humanitarian mission. So I knew that being involved with Skoll International and the International Institute of Peace Through Tourism, I had connections in quite a few countries around the world – friends really – that I could connect with for for advice, and they were much older than me too. So they’d been way, way, way, way more traveled than I was at the time. I was able to connect with them and they were able to give me some motivation too, but I think having supportive parents and having that drive that comes from…sometimes when you’re in your darkest places, the best things can come up; that you’re forced to really dig deep down inside and find what it is in life that that gives you excitement, that gives you passion and will; the yearning to want to create a legacy and that’s where it came from as well.

Brian  

Well, I’m sure as you got further and further into planning, the momentum built up and people started to know about it and you started to get the pieces put into place too, at some point you realized that, hey, this thing is actually going to happen; all the excitement, and maybe a little bit of anxiety, and all the planning that went into it, but I’m sure at one point it had to be very exciting when you realized that, hey, this thing is actually going to happen.

Cassie  

When I first took off and landed [in] my first country it was exciting. But it was also so nerve wracking because there was such an immense amount of pressure to finish and to do it because I had sponsors who invested their time and money into me. But also, I had this goal for myself that I needed to finish. My 20s were filled with me needing to create these lofty goals and finish them and if I didn’t, then I beat myself up about it. So there was excitement, but it was…I would say it was more nerves and needing to…it was a lot of work every day, every morning, and there was definitely a part of it that was exciting when I first took off, and then it really hit me like oh, I’ve got a way to go here.

Brian  

I want to talk all about the the trip itself but I want to back up, if we could. I have a couple of questions leading up to the trip. One is about planning. The planning alone for a trip like that is an impressive accomplishment. I mean, I know what it takes to plan like a week vacation in the Caribbean, where I’m going to lay on the beach all week. And yet, you’re talking about traveling to and planning for traveling to every country in the world. And then also when you bring the possibility of either setting or breaking a Guinness World Record into the mix, that must have multiplied the complexity. What did that entail, both the planning and the Guiness component? How long did it take you to prepare for the trip?

Cassie  

Okay, so the planning took around a year and a half or so from the idea to getting everything in place. Guinness World Records required a lot of evidence, at least three or four different types of evidence, and I tried to get around five or six. So that, in and of itself, was…whenever I arrived in a country, I had to ensure that I got the evidence:  the stamps, the photos, the GPS, everything like that. And when it came to planning, I mean, I had no idea [about] the visas. I mean, you really have to plan around these visas because some countries, it can take months, if not years, to get visas. There are so many unknowns when it comes to that. I did have some help. My brother’s friend, I hired him to help me with organization and planning out all the countries and which order they’re going to go in. I tried to plan around the weather and also the visas and at one point, had to throw that all out the door and re-plan because then I had meetings with the students in the universities. And I mean, I love planning trips. I love planning trips even now, as you understand, it takes a lot to even plan a week long trip. Even me, I’m thinking, I don’t even know how I planned that whole thing. But I think passion and drive overrides anything when you’re in that moment. Trying to plan something so vast and extreme, something overcomes you and you just have to get it done. There’s no other choice. It was a year and a half of a lot of trial and error and trying to carefully make these calculations as to which country I’m going get to when, and what I’m going to do there, and how long, and yeah, it was [a] wild, wild ride.

Brian  

That’s an awesome accomplishment, as I said, just to plan that. I want to talk about funding the trip. You mentioned sponsors; I think you were 26 when you started right?

Cassie  

Twenty-five I think, yeah.

Brian  

Twenty-five. So I have four children and I know if one of them came to me and said that they wanted to do what you, at some point, told your parents that you wanted to do, one of the first questions I would have is how that gets paid for. You’d be traveling for 18 months all over the world. Again, you mentioned sponsors. Did you have a sponsor who just wrote a blank check to pay for the whole thing? Or how did that work?

Cassie  

Yeah, I wish! First of all, I didn’t even know how I was going to get money. When I learned about the word sponsorship, I just saw people like Michael Phelps getting sponsors, and I thought, Well, if he can get sponsors, maybe I can. I had no idea where to start. But I had to create something that they needed, they wanted, for their business. I mean, a lot of it came down to the humanitarian aspect of the trip, and also the Guinness World Record. So those two things in conjunction, the companies were able to support a philanthropic mission and [something] that supported their goals as well, something sustainability or peace or women’s achievement. And then also supporting someone going after a lofty world record type thing. I did not have any contacts. When this all began, I was, like I said, just a babysitter trying to make ends meet. I didn’t know anyone in corporate, CEOs, or anything like that. So it took a lot of networking, going to travel and tourism events. A big event I went to is the World Travel and Tourism Council Summit. I would go to that every year and really pitch myself to CEOs. It was a C-level event – so CEO of Princess Cruises or AIG – [it] was where I got one of my sponsors; and just pitch, pitch, really throw myself out there, a follow up email, and they’d want to invest either in the form of cash or services or product. Then there were a couple of independent investors too, who, like you, they had kids who they thought it was more of a personal thing for them. They saw that I was this young girl trying to go after this lofty goal and change the world. I had this big dream and I think they saw that and wanted to contribute to it in a small way. But there were no big chunks that came, it was a consistent, slow, gradual contribution of funds through sponsors.

Brian  

Were you done fundraising by the time you left, or no?

Cassie  

Through the trip, yeah, I had to [fundraise]. Every morning I woke up and I had to send emails out and follow up and send more emails out. I would come up with lists of hundreds and hundreds of companies out there, big and small, who I could reach out to that would pertain to my mission and my vision as well, and reach out and follow up and then go to a networking event and meet them in person. I saved around $10,000. It’s all I could save leading up to the trip just because I wasn’t making much but that was enough to get me started. Then I had a few other sponsors to get it going for the first six months. Then I realized, I’m running out of money, what am I going to do? I actually had to stop and come back to the States but I couldn’t stay in the States for more than 14 days, because I wasn’t allowed to stay in one country for more than 14 days for the Guinness record. And in that time I was just wildfire reaching out, trying to get that next chunk of funds and also reaching out to the press too, because they have to be mentioned in the press and all that sort of thing. There’s just this whole pack that comes along with it; it was a lot of lot of hustling, a lot of work to maintain.

Brian  

How much did you spend when all was said and done, if you’re willing to share that?

Cassie  

It’s hard because I got a lot of free goods and services so to come up with the exact budgeting was a little bit tough at the end. But the best that I came to was around $110,000 for the trip. I was really grateful that through Skoll International and IIPTT they connected me to ministers of tourism, and I was able to get free hotel stays, as well as some free flights here and there. And, it’s just paying it forward, honestly, after that trip. It’s my life’s legacy to just pay it forward from here on out because everyone was so kind and generous.

Brian  

I’m sure even those sponsorships added up to a lot more money. I mean, I can’t hazard a guess even as to how much that was. But if you’re getting free hotel rooms and plane tickets, I mean, that’s a considerable amount of money as well.

Cassie  

Yeah, exactly.

Brian  

So let’s talk a little more, get into some of the details of the trip itself. I have probably a million questions. I am just super fascinated by the whole thing. I know our listeners and viewers are too. The trip was a whirlwind tour, you visited 196 sovereign nations in 18 months, basically, and you were trying to break a speed record. And so I know because of that you weren’t sightseeing, you weren’t laying on beaches, at least not for very long. What’s the least amount of time that you spent in a country? And what was the longest that you were in a country? Was it when you went back to the US? Was that the longest or were there other times when you were able to stay in a country a little bit longer?

Cassie  

There were a handful of countries where I maxed out my time of 14 days, the US was one of them, Russia was another one. But the least amount of time I spent in the country was – and I hate to say it, but for budget reasons – Tuvalu was was one of them, Nauru is actually the smallest country in the world. It’s like 10 miles around its circumference. I knew that if I was going to stay there, it would have been a week before the next flight out and there were only two hotels on the island at the time, they were like $250 a night and I just couldn’t budget it. The fact that I was going after a speed record – that wouldn’t be my ideal record to go when it comes to travel, because I do love immersing myself in the culture and taking the time – but for the sake of the whole project and mission, I needed to do that. So there were around ten countries where I had to turn in and out pretty quickly. But I did, obviously, have to pass through immigration and leave the airport. On average [it] was around two and a half days in a country. The countries where I was able to spend around five days there was perfect, in my opinion. In Pakistan, for example, I landed in Karachi, and then went to Lahore and Islamabad and I got a nice sense of the country. That was around five days in the culture and that was perfect for me at the time. But some countries, I did have to kind of turn around pretty quickly because of budget constraints, and others longer for visas, or just because I was sick. It really wasn’t often that I’d stay in a country 14 days because I really wanted to explore, because I had so much work to do. So it was either catching up on work, being sick, or needing to get visas, like in the States.

Brian  

So most of your extended stays were unplanned circumstances,rather than, hey, this is a great place, I think I’ll hang out here a little longer.

Cassie  

It’s hard because some countries I visited, I was like, wow, I want to stay here for another week. But it wasn’t a vacation, I didn’t really have that luxury. I would have needed to have the budget to do that and I simply didn’t. It was a business trip, too. I had a lot of meetings I had to go to and speaking engagements between students. I had to stay clear on my mission that I was on and stick to my vision and not get sidetracked, which is tough.

Brian  

I’m guessing that you probably have almost as many unique and special experiences as the number of countries that you visited. Share a couple of stories, if you would, Cassie, experiences that impacted you the most. Which ones stand out for you?

Cassie  

I think one of the first…I started off in Oceania and Vanuatu was one of the first countries I visited. I think it was the top ten first countries I visited. I spoke to the high school students there and I spent about five days there. I love going to countries that are not the norm that, at the time, I didn’t really hear about people going to these countries. I just love exploring off the beaten path places and cultures and immersing myself in it and learning, and so this country is one I hadn’t really heard of it before. It’s a very developing nation, but the people there were…I mean, I wandered around [a] little town with these clay homes, all open – it’s hot there. It’s like everyone keeps their homes open, keeps their door open. I was wandering around and ended up stumbling into these people’s home. They invited me in and they showed me how kava was made with this machine. There were these guys who were probably in their 20s or 30s and I [thought] this could be a bad situation for me just meandering into their home as a woman, solo, but I let go of all fear and tried to embrace it as much as possible. And I fully did. Also the speaking to the students there; the kids sitting on the ground in this hot, hot place, and listening and laughing and connecting with them. There are around, I want to say, like maybe 50 students or so – maybe 30, 40, 50. It was such a heartwarming experience, [the] people [of] Vanuatu, they were really kind and [it] was one of my favorite places. You would never think [of it] because most people don’t really know about Vanuatu or go there. I loved the unknown of it and also the kindness was such a nice surprise. It’s one of my favorites.

Brian  

Where is that geographically, I should probably know that.

Cassie  

It’s off the coast…the closest would be Australia, kind of off the coast. So it’s interesting, the people, you have the Solomon Islands there, you have some countries around there that are lesser known, but just super, super interesting.

Brian  

So you left California and then traveled west and started in that area, and then proceeded from there.

Cassie  

I wanted to start off in Oceania because I knew it was going to be one of the most expensive places to travel. I wasn’t sure when I was going to get money in and I knew I needed to start [the trip] and wanted to have [the funds] last because what if I had absolutely no money left and I couldn’t [finish], because those flights are really expensive, like I said, Nauru, the flight was coming out once a week when I was there. They might have changed that now, but you’re kind of stuck there. And it’s expensive, because they can’t easily get resources. So I did start off in Oceania, and Palau was my very first country. That was a beautiful, beautiful place to be. There’s a lot of little islands over there. It was hard too, because I was afraid of flying, especially over water, specifically. So I really dove headfirst into the most expensive and the most fearful for me, even more so than the Middle East or North Korea. Flying over water in the Pacific was…I had to get over that fear pretty quickly.

Brian  

You had traveled a fair amount already, you traveled to Europe? Was that part of your early travels – that wasn’t something that you got over earlier?

Cassie  

Yeah, it was still scary for me. Sometimes it’s hard to kick those fears. But I made it happen.

Brian  

I imagined…so I’m an achiever, just by nature, that’s one of my strengths…so this idea of having 196 items on a checklist and going down that list and checking those boxes, for me, is like super exciting. I mean, the travel part is too, but just the idea of checking boxes, because I’m strange that way. Is it really exciting – I imagine – for you as you got into the trip…it really became kind of – I don’t want to say routine, because every country is different – but formulaic. Was that the case? And if it was, at least on some level, what did a typical day look like for you?

Cassie  

I agree, checking off boxes is something that I tend to enjoy. I feel kind of bad saying that about traveling and I’ve gotten a lot of flack for that – traveling quickly. People [think] you can’t really check off a box when it comes to a country because there’s so much involved in that country and culture. [I] completely, completely understand that. But it did become pretty routine. After a while I fell into the groove of getting up pretty early. My day started at around four or five AM. I would go for a walk to clear my head and to plan out the day mentally, listen to podcasts; I needed to focus on that mental health aspect every day otherwise I would have probably lost it because there was so much involved in the trip. [I would] come back, do a few hours of work – emails trying to get the sponsors, the visas, coordinating the meetings with the students and dignitaries, planning the next. I didn’t really plan – unless I had a meeting there – I didn’t plan the hotel or the flight until really the day before, just in case. You never know what’s going to happen; there could be a storm or political unrest, you just never know. So I was waiting until [the] last minute and learned the hard way with that. Then I would be able to leave the hotel room and go explore a little bit and check it out and try and connect with local people and try to experience the culture as much as possible. Then I would come back, go to bed early, like eight [and] start the whole thing the next day, and hopefully be able to experience a little bit more of that country too. [I] had a full eight to ten hour work day on these trips. Anytime that I had off was, I’ve got to get out and got to explore, I have to see what’s out [there]. I’m not just here to be on my computer. I’m here to try to explore too, as best I can.

Brian  

I’m sure it was difficult to balance that depending on what exactly you had going on, what commitments you had, versus what you wanted to see. I don’t know how much of that you had planned, if you had lists of, geez, if I have a little bit of extra time, these are the things that I’d like to see. Or did you just leave it more to sort of serendipity and whatever the day brought or that particular country offered?

Cassie  

I did have a list of tons of places I wanted to see. But again, I knew…I’m like kind of selfish by seeing these places because I have bigger shoes to fill when it comes to this whole mission on this trip. But there were times, for example, I was in Seychelles and I’d always wanted to go to Seychelles, it was on my bucket list. I wanted to see that beautiful rocky beach, which I later learned that you would have needed to take a boat, and it’s expensive to get to the specific beach. But I was there to speak to the students and meet with the minister of tourism there and that took up the majority of my time. I had to let that go. I did try, but at the end of the day, I’m here on a different purpose other than to sightsee, so it was a bummer. But on other occasions, though, I would go to a country and speak to a local and [say], hey, I have an idea in mind of where I want to go here but are there any places you’d recommend that aren’t maybe as touristy but just as beautiful or different? And I would grab the recommendation and go check it out. So I did that more than my own planning to go see places; I would listen to locals because, at the end of the day, they live there and they know where the best spots are and I just wanted to heed their advice.

Brian  

Oh, sure. I would think that’s a much richer experience going on, where they would recommend that you go either to meet people that you wouldn’t get to meet or to see a part of the country that you wouldn’t get to see otherwise.

Cassie  

For sure.

Brian  

So, Cassie, as you know, everyone has dreams and aspirations. A lot of people never get started though. They might have the same aspiration that you had or a different one, and they just can’t get out of the starting blocks. Then there are people who do get started and they face adversity along the way. They bump into obstacles. I think it was Mike Tyson who said everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. You traveled for 18 months. I’m guessing that you didn’t have 558 days of smooth sailing. Tell us about maybe two or three of the biggest obstacles you faced along the way. What was it that gave you the courage, the tenacity, the fortitude, to push through adversity when you faced those obstacles and ultimately set a Guinness World Record in the process?

Cassie  

Speaking of that, though, I’ve had so many projects that haven’t come to fruition because either I start them and it gets rocky, or I am too fearful. So I still suffer with that as well when it comes to my dreams, but this one did come to fruition. Sometimes you have to try 20 or 50 different things in your life and maybe one of them – just one of them – comes through and that’s good enough. I think being alone with your own thoughts, in your own mind, while also suffering and not really having – I say suffering – but not really having the money or knowing when it’s going to come in and not being able to connect with your family or friends much; also being depressed, fighting those demons, that did take its toll. I did a TED talk on stage where I talked about this in front of 3500 people, where I experienced something where my mind really gave out when it came to seeing that will to want to finish and survive, really. Everything had…sometimes when you have depression, you could be in the best…you could have all the money in the world or no money, you could be in the best circumstance or the worst, but it’s still going to be…your mind is something you don’t have control over in some of those moments. I remember thinking…it was in Greece, and it was just a really low point and I thought, how am I going to get myself out of this? At the end of the day, it came down to that I put so much work into this dream, into this goal. It’s not just me, it’s also my parents, who, I want them to be proud and excited of what I’ve done. It’s my sponsors who I’m not going to leave them hanging. It’s the people who had followed along and supported [me]. It’s also the students who I had a responsibility to speak to, and the water samples…there was so much that I was doing. I thought, I chose to do this, it’s my responsibility to power through and push through these negative thoughts and push through the hardship and finish this goal. I’d never really finished a goal before that expedition. I mean, I did “Naked and Afraid” – I don’t think I consider that a goal – I didn’t graduate college; I would get close and then I wouldn’t finish the goal. I thought, if there’s going to be one main goal that I’m going to complete in this life, it’s going to be this trip. And that, in and of itself; continuing to give myself those pep talks, of giving 110%, finishing, seeing through [to] the finish line, that’s how I was able to get through. It’s really hard to explain, because it’s such a mental game. I even related finishing the Ironman to you can put [in] all this preparation and you can do all this planning, but at the end of the day, it just comes down to your mental game. It has to be pretty strong. It’s seeing through to the goal and then finding that inner motivation, finding that one thing that gives you that motivation. For me, it was a lot of the online hate that I was getting, from people saying that I was traveling too fast or not traveling sustainably. That was huge, that added fuel to my fire to want to push through and continue to educate the world on responsible tourism and continue to get my message across.

Brian  

You mentioned that you had not achieved a goal before that. That’s a pretty cool one to accomplish, so I applaud you for that. I mean, if you can only achieve one goal, that’s a pretty big one; it’s probably even more remarkable. I find it hard to believe that you hadn’t achieved goals prior to that, and certainly not on the level of that, so that’s pretty amazing. (Cassie: Thanks.) You mentioned “Naked and Afraid” and I don’t have that on my list of questions (Cassie:  Oh, that’s okay! [laughter]) but given that we’re in the show, and you mentioned it, our listeners and viewers heard that and they wouldn’t be able to stop thinking about it so I am going to ask you a little bit about it, share what that was, and maybe a little bit of that experience, so we can close the loop on it, you having mentioned it, and then we’ll quickly move on.

Cassie  

It’s fun to talk about now, but it was really a terrible experience. I did it right before I started planning this trip, this expedition. Up until that point, I said to myself, it was the best worst experience of my entire life because I learned a lot about who I was and who I wasn’t. You’re in your early 20s, everyone has a certain amount of naiveness to them and not knowing what they want to do and not knowing…maybe their people skills are still developing. At that point. I didn’t know that I wasn’t a team player. I wasn’t great with working with other people, hence me traveling every country in the world alone. That’s something that I did do well. And so it’s just, you learn these things about yourself. But for those of you, for those listeners who don’t know, I was actually placed in Panama and it was 21 days surviving naked with no food, no water and one tool and you’re placed there with one other person, but usually someone of the opposite sex. And then we actually – my partner and I – met up with another couple halfway through. So it was the four of us – two men, two women – trying to survive naked in this jungle. It makes for great TV but it’s also very heavily edited so they don’t show a lot. I was the villain of the episode; which, I still get those comments, they still air it to this day. But I remember sitting there in the dirt, naked, thinking, what am I doing with my life? Before this, I was a babysitter, and now I’m naked in the jungle trying to be on this show. I just thought this is not the life that young Cassie would have envisioned for herself as she nears 30. So the idea that you have so much time, the idea of traveling every country started really settling into my mind. At that point, I thought, I’m not going to keep doing these things where I’m working jobs that I don’t enjoy, or sitting naked in the jungle somewhere doing some show. It was an eye opening experience.

Brian  

What caused you…I don’t watch a lot of reality television but I know even the local newspaper gets quotes wrong, usually unintentionally. (Cassie:  Exactly.) One thing I know about reality television is that it’s theatrical and it’s manipulated. Ultimately, they’re going to tell the story that they want to tell for you, whether that’s the truth or not. Maybe that’s my cynical take about reality television. So what is it that causes people – I mean, you can only speak for yourself – but what caused you to want to be on that in the first place? That would be terrifying to me, to think about being naked. I’d be too afraid to even try out for it, that’s how afraid I’d be.

Cassie  

I always took risks from a very young age. I’ve always been a risk taker. And even if the sake of society not really agreeing to whatever it was or is that I want to do. Right now, if someone offered me a million dollars to go naked in the jungle again and do it, I probably would not be doing that. But at the time, I thought that I had nothing to lose. I thought, I haven’t built a business, I don’t have a family, I don’t have a partner. I’m just trying to build this career for myself. But at the end of the day, at the time, I didn’t have anything to lose. So I thought, why not go after this? Maybe I’ll learn something from it. Maybe it’ll unearth something that I can only learn about myself if I did the show. It was one of those things where I went on a whim and thought why not? Again, I think it just came down to being 23, 24 [years old] and wanting to see what the world had to offer through these experiences.

Brian  

So we talked earlier about overcoming obstacles, did that experience help you as you were traveling around the world?

Cassie  

I think it it did, because I had this pretty soft shell built around me where I could easily be hurt by the things people would say or the things they would do. And through my travels in my early 20s and late teens, I started to develop that shell but it wasn’t until “Naked and Afraid” where I really had to learn how to mature. Pretty quickly I went from literally being naked in the jungle to meeting with dignitaries and kings and presidents and ministers of tourism. So I had to make this huge maturity shift. But also, I didn’t realize that I would get a lot of negative feedback from people about my expedition around the world because I thought it was such a good thing. But “Naked and Afraid”, people are sitting on their couch, they have something to say about everything and a lot of it can be negative. So I did learn how to better manage the online bullying that I received, and also see through to the end and stay mentally strong. So that was, I would say, my first introduction to really needing to stay mentally strong – was on “Naked and Afraid” – that kind of led through to the expedition and even the Ironman.

Brian  

Hopefully you’ve taken that experience that wasn’t so great and learned from it and grown from it and use that in other ways. Getting back, Cassie, to Expedition 196, what was the hardest part about traveling alone? And what did you really enjoy? Because you did that experience yourself.

Cassie  

The hardest part was…I don’t know how many people can relate, I’m sure a lot of people can, but I had depression, also pretty bad anxiety. I felt that I needed to also be a perfectionist with how I was going about the planning of the trip and execution of the trip and the sponsors. I held myself to a high standard of what I needed to do. So I ended up having a lot of anxiety and I wasn’t really able to eat much as a result. When you have anxiety it can affect so many things. But that was one thing that affected for me. So that, along with not getting much sleep – I think the longest I was up for was 68 hours between flights – and so I was almost back in the jungle, hungry, sleep deprived going through anxiety, dehydrated, all over again. So that really took its toll. The anxiety, and also sleep, is huge for me. If I don’t get a good night’s sleep it’s hard for me to function, even today. So that was really challenging. But I learned a lot through traveling alone, in that I was able to depend on myself for everything that I needed to do for to for myself, in general. I didn’t realize how much I would ask someone for help before the expedition, or depend on someone, or rely on them to do something for me. I learned to do everything alone. I learned to also find comfort and love for myself because I wasn’t able to get that through being around friends or family members. I was around strangers all the time or I was alone. So I developed a self-love and I developed an ability to take care of myself and to see through to my own goals and stand on my own two feet and be that independent woman that I’d always strived to be. The aftermath of the expedition, being able to build a career from it, being able to see all that hard work pay off, all that hard work that I did myself, and of course, with the help of people. It was hard for me to accept help at first, through sponsors and the nonprofits and my parents’ support, but seeing it pay off was massive. I felt like finally I had become my own person and that was through doing it alone.

Brian  

That’s awesome. Were you able to – I know you were very busy all the time – did you journal at all? Were you able to write about a lot of the things that you just talked about and worked through? Was that captured somehow?

Cassie  

I did make sure to journal every day, even if it was just a few sentences, mainly, so I could remember too, because I was traveling so quickly that it’s easy to forget experiences that you have in that country. I also journaled down feelings and emotions that I had that day. There was a lot of negativity. I wouldn’t ever publish it online or in a book because it was a lot of hardship. I hate to say that because I had the privilege to do this expedition and to travel every country, but it was really, really, really hard; especially with the sleep deprivation and whatnot. But missed flights and visa problems and detainment, plus trying to find more sponsors and funding, is just really, really hard. But I did. I did journal every day.

Brian  

I was thinking about that more for you, something that you would have forever because it was so impactful, and the thoughts that you had were were strong and of course, the full spectrum of emotions, I’m sure. So some of it you may have published already or might consider it, but I was thinking what a wonderful gift that is for you, certainly for the rest of your life and maybe even beyond that as a legacy. (Cassie:  Yeah.) Cassie, for me, traveling – and you might be the same way – I love visiting places but what I really enjoy are the people. Now, I haven’t been to anywhere near 196 countries, but I’ve been all over the world and I’ve had the pleasure of meeting all kinds of people, some of the wealthiest people in the world, some of the poorest, men, women, black, white, people who are blessed with political and religious freedom, and those who weren’t. And many of them didn’t even speak English, which makes communication quite challenging. You obviously encountered all of those things and more. What did you learn about people as you traveled to so many countries and experienced literally every type of scenario and culture that exists in the world?

Cassie  

I love that question so much, because everyone’s going to have their own different answer to it. I grew up in a really small town, there were like 100 kids in my graduating class. I was sheltered a little bit, we didn’t travel other than to Canada, where my mom’s from. But you would see, on the news, stuff about the world, you learned about the world through the news – we also didn’t have Facebook or Instagram or things like TicTok back then – so that’s kind of how we learned about the world. And I remember always – it stuck in my head – seeing all this negative stuff about the world:  the political unrest and war, and people bashing other types of people and places and cultures and ethnicities, and I thought it can’t be that bad. It just can’t, it can’t be that bad. People are just trying to survive and they’re just trying to…I know they’re kinder than that. I just knew, even though I hadn’t experienced anything, but what I had experienced traveling was that was true; that the great majority of people were kind and wanted peace, they didn’t want conflict, they were going about their daily lives, they just wanted to show me their home and the goodness of the country that they live in, and the town and their family and friends and food. At the end of the day – people -everyone’s just trying to put food on the table and have a roof over their head and share kindness when they can. Whenever I have people visiting, all I want to do is show them the beauty of my home and my cooking and my town and things to do. And I found that to be pretty much the same all over the world, even despite communication differences. I was in traveling to Chile, and I think it was coming from Bolivia. I was on a bus in the back of the bus and there was a woman from Bolivia who was sitting next to me. I’m sure her Spanish was – I couldn’t even understand and I can pick up Spanish more than I can speak it – but she was sitting there eating oranges, like orange after orange after orange; giving me some orange, giving me some cocoa leaf – I forget the name of it; with the rock that you chew on – and this experience – we weren’t really talking, she was talking – I didn’t know what she was saying but we connected so much. She just wanted to share an orange with me and talk even though we both didn’t understand each other. Those are the experiences that I had all over the world. Rarely did I have any any bad experiences with people, a person. That’s what I picked up from it.

Brian  

One of the thoughts that I had is as a young, attractive white woman, you stick out like a sore thumb. I mean, a white man would stick out like a sore thumb in a lot of countries. How were you received as you traveled from country to country, especially in the countries where people aren’t accustomed to seeing any fair-skinned people, but certainly not fair-skinned women traveling alone. Did you have any challenges with that at all?

Cassie  

I didn’t. I mean, I have a lot of privilege I will say, just being born as the person I am with the opportunity that I have. I did experience some looks but I didn’t experience any negativity from people. I think in general, people…I’m trying to think of…the Middle East in Saudi where I didn’t have to wear a hijab, but I’d wear a burqa and I did get stared at yes, because there are not many blonde woman there. In some countries in Africa, like Chad, yes, but I think people were more interested in learning, to get to know me and to talk to me and see if I am like what they see in the movies, I guess, of the Western world. I think one thing that went a really long way was smiling and joking and laughing with people. That’s a common thing that everyone loves to do is smile and joke and laugh. I was able to connect with people in that way, even despite language barriers. I experienced a lot more harassment, and more abuse too, when I was traveling in my earlier 20s backpacking, for some reason, but that was also more so in the workplace when I would work for free room and board and these male hotel owners would totally take advantage. But my trip around the world, my expedition, no, not really, everyone was pretty accepting. They were just curious sometimes and pretty open to all.

Brian  

That’s good. So maybe you experience more of that walking down the street in the US?

Cassie  

[Laughter] Yeah, definitely. [Crosstalk] I like to use that analogy too, because that’s true.

Brian  

Cassie, I either read or heard you say that the reason you did the trip was, and I’m quoting, “To promote peace through sustainable tourism and women’s empowerment through breaking two Guinness World Records and becoming the first woman ever to do so.” I think I got that right. Now, that sounds really corporate and official. (Cassie:  Yeah.) I don’t know you super well, but I think I know you well enough to know that you’re not corporate. (Cassie:  Yeah.) What you accomplished was such an amazing achievement and again, I really commend you for that. When I think about all you had to endure in order to plan – we’ve talked about planning and talked about the trip to accomplish that great feat – I’m thinking that there is a much deeper, far more personal why. What was Expedition 196 really about for you?

Cassie  

I wanted to make use of the opportunity that I was given in this life with being able bodied and having the ability to think and create and just having the freedom. I wanted to make the best use out of this body and life that I was given as possible. And I saw that changing the world or enhancing the world for the better, even in some little small way, it was really important to me to use what I have and use my privilege for the better. But also I loved following the theory of the hero’s journey and looking at my life as this cycle from life to death. And what is that, how is that cycle going to play out? What’s going to be involved, the trials and tribulations and things I have to overcome? I like to look down on my life as this kind of hero’s journey, not that I’m the hero. I mean, we’re all the hero of our own life, really; we’re all the gods of our own life, I think, but leave a positive legacy behind at the end of the cycle. It was kind of simple, but also complex. I like to think philosophically about it as much as I can. But I wanted to leave a positive legacy behind whenever I left and try and enhance the world in some small way. I think it sounds maybe deep or weird, but I think everyone has the opportunity to leave a positive legacy behind, if not for the world, for their family, for themselves, for their friends, and also enhance the world in some way big or small. I think everyone has the chance to do that and it’s special when you can look back on your life and say that you tried and you feel good about it.

Brian  

Well, you did more than try, you you accomplished it. And I know for sure that one thing you can feel really good about is that when people learn about your story, they can’t help but be inspired. So hopefully you plant a seed for our listeners and viewers, for anybody through the years who’s been fortunate enough to hear your story and people in the future who will hear your story, that they can be inspired knowing your background and knowing your huge accomplishment and also being able to believe in themselves more. Because if you did what you were able to do, then hopefully everybody who hears your story can think about a bigger possibility. I talk a lot about possibility – thinking about, dreaming, big dreams. And this was a big dream that you had and you’re a woman. I mean, not – it’s impressive for a man to do what you did – it’s impressive for anybody. But you do have the ability to inspire little girls and teenage girls and adult women who are still bumping into barriers and obstacles, trying to achieve big things, dream big dreams, and achieve big goals but sometimes just being able to get through the day and through the week and through the year. I know, for me, it’s incredibly inspirational. I think people who hear your story can’t help but be inspired by that, so I really appreciate it.

Cassie  

Thank you. I think it’s important too; society tells you to inspire other people and I think it’s really important to inspire yourself and then through inspiring yourself, you’ll inspire other people, hopefully. But you have to look at yourself and see the good and the love that you have for yourself and the power that you have and inspire yourself first, and then I think others will take on to that.

Brian  

That’s a great point. So as you look at yourself…I don’t know how somebody could go through the experience that you’ve gone through and not be profoundly impacted. How are you different as a result of Expedition 196?

Cassie  

How am I different? Ah, that’s…you stumped me with that one. That’s a loaded one. Because it can go so deep. I’m such a deep thinker, introspective thinker. Ultimately, I thought I would finish and be done. I’m like, this is my legacy. I don’t know what career I’m going to make out of this, but I finished and that’s it. I’m really tired, I’m going to be done. But I think something really important that I’ve learned is that you never should be done. Maybe that was the biggest thing I’ll ever do and that’s okay. If college was the biggest thing that someone has achieved, then that’s great. You don’t need to always do big things. But you can always work off those things to continue to build your legacy with projects and things that you’re passionate about. So something that I struggled with finishing my trip was – everyone’s like – what’s next? What are you going to do, where are you going to go? And I tried to do this other record and at the end of the day, I was just like, I’m tired. I did something really big and I want to build off of that for future generations; I’m done with doing stuff for me and doing these trips and doing these records, breaking these records. I want to actually just give back now, slow down a little bit and give back in different ways. And so that’s, I think, a big thing I learned was to slow down and to focus on other things that can come of a big success or successes like that – sorry, tongue twister.

Brian  

That’s a nice segue into my next question, because I’m writing a book right now about achieving, what I call “Big Dog Goals”. The last chapter of the book deals with exactly what you just brought up, Cassie. The title is “There Is No Finish Line.” It explores the feelings that people have after they’ve achieved a significant accomplishment, like going to the moon, or running multiple triathlons in consecutive days, or traveling to every country in the world. So you started to hit on it, but if you could expand on that and just talk about that a little more. What does that concept “there is no finish line” mean to you and how has that played out post Expedition 196?

Cassie  

I think when you do something so big you get such pressure from society to continue to do other big things. But it’s okay to slow down and it’s okay to finish as big of things that you did before, but just in a much deeper way. It doesn’t have to be all like a showing as it was before, like an Olympic record, or Guinness World record, or college where you have that degree that you can show. You can do projects and things and hobbies; that they go a little bit deeper and help people in other ways. They also involve a lot of work. For example, I’m working on my non-profit. I finished my trip around the world and I thought, okay, I’m going to start my non-profit finally, and get that off the ground and do that. And that is harder than doing and planning a trip to every country in the world – starting a non-profit. I learned that the hard way, that it is going to take years of building it and by the time I’m 50, 60, it’s going to be done. I’ll be able to hand that off to kids, if I decide to have them, or just to someone else to continue that legacy. And that’s like the legacy project, too, it’s not just my expedition. So it’s easy, after you do something so vast and succeed in some big way, to say, I’m done; this is a finish line for me. But it’s not, it doesn’t have to be…you have to learn how to reinvent yourself and reinvent your mind and almost find those things that give you drive and passion just like your first big thing was. That’s what it means to me.

Brian  

I love that. Thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate that and again, it’s timely. You mentioned your not-for-profit organization, I wanted to make sure I asked you about that – Her International. If you could talk about that with our listeners and viewers. What’s the focus? Where does that stand now and how can people learn more about it?

Cassie  

So when I was a young girl, in high school, I wanted to achieve big things. But I didn’t know where to start, I didn’t really have any contacts or support system or mentors in the travel industry. I also was turned down for a lot of funding when it came to my expedition. I tried getting grants from expeditions around the world, I was unable to land them and it was because I didn’t have a college degree. They have all these criteria. That was the main reason I got denied, because of that, for a lot of these grants. So I started Her International because I want women and girls to feel that they have an equal opportunity to pursue their passions and businesses and dreams despite whatever limitations they might have, for instance, not having a degree or maybe facing adversity in some way. But we want to support women who are looking to build businesses that support at least one of the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. There are 17 of them, so that they are passion-driven businesses, but also businesses that are enhancing the world we live in, in some way, a B-corp. That’s the premise of the non-profit; we’re still building it up at this stage. It’s a lot of work. I had no idea and I was definitely naive when it came to starting it and talking about it right away when I didn’t have it fully developed or a team even. But it’s called Her International and the website is Her.International, NOT HerInternational.com. That’s where they can learn a little bit more about it. Hopefully we’ll have some more updates in the next year or two when it comes to furthering the development, but it’s definitely my passion right now.

Brian  

Awesome. Well, you’re definitely the right person to head up an organization like that. The mission is great. I look forward to seeing great things come from that. I appreciate you sharing that. Cassie, thanks so much for being on the show. You are such an inspiration. This has been terrific. There’s a quote about travel that states “The world is a book and those who do not travel read only a page.” You’ve obviously read volumes. I appreciate you sharing – not just your travel experience – but your life experience. Thank you.

Cassie  

Thank you so much, Brian, you’ve been so kind. It’s been a breath of fresh air when it comes to the hardships of life and career and of life in the fast lane, so I really appreciate your kind words and sitting down with you and taking the time to think back about my trip again.

Brian  

It’s my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for tuning in to Life Excellence. Please support the show by subscribing, sharing it with others, posting about today’s show with Cassie De Pecal on social media, and leaving a rating and review. You can also learn more about me at Brian.Bartes.com. Until next time, dream big dreams and make each day your masterpiece.