Show Notes

• “Is this networking thing just a fad?”
• 30 to 10,000
• It’s not taught in the schools
• The networking disconnect
• The challenge with “networking up”
• Do six things 1,000 times, not 1,000 things six times
• Giver’s Gain®
• Building a reciprocal relationship
• What successful networkers do that others don’t do
• Surrounding yourself with success
• What we should strive for, if it isn’t work-life balance
• The most important idea with networking

Connect With Ivan Misner

Website: http://www.ivanmisner.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ivan.misner
Twitter: https://twitter.com/IvanMisner
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drivanmisner/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanmisner
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEq8rtIgxbwhCQ2OEkFQUGw  
Podcast: https://www.bnipodcast.com/

Summary

Dr. Ivan Misner has been called the “Father of Modern Networking” by both Forbes and CNN. He’s the Founder & Chief Visionary Officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization, and is also one of the world’s leading experts on business networking. Ivan discusses the phenomenal growth of BNI, and what successful networkers do that others don’t do.

Full Transcript

Brian  

Welcome to another episode of LifeExcellence with Brian Bartes. Join me as I talk with amazing athletes, entrepreneurs, authors, entertainers, and others who have achieved excellence in their chosen field so you can learn their tools, techniques and strategies for improving performance and achieving greater success. Dr. Ivan Misner is the founder and chief visionary officer of BNI, the world’s largest business networking organization. Founded in 1985 the organization now has 291,000 members of more than 10,800 chapters in over 76 countries. In the last 12 months alone BNI generated 12.6 million member referrals, resulting in more than $19.4 billion worth of business for its members. Called the “father of modern networking” by both Forbes and CNN, Ivan is considered to be one of the world’s leading experts on business networking. He has been a keynote speaker for major corporations and associations throughout the world, and is a New York Times bestselling author of 27 books, including one of my favorites, “The 29% Solution.” Among his many awards, Ivan has been named Humanitarian of the Year by the Red Cross, and he is a recipient of the John C. Maxwell Leadership Award. He also co-founded, with his late wife, Elizabeth, the BNI Charitable Foundation. Ivan is the proud father of three children and in his spare time he’s also an amateur magician and has a black belt in karate. Welcome, Ivan, and thanks for joining us on LifeExcellence.

Ivan  

Oh, Brian, thank you, truly my pleasure to be on.

Brian  

You’ve been a busy guy over the last 40 years. The term “networking” is a very familiar phrase to most of us today. But I’m guessing it was a new concept, at least in name back in the 1980s.

Ivan  

That question hasn’t come up in decades. It really hasn’t. You’re like the first person to ask this. But I’ll tell you the funny thing is, in the 80s or 90s – early, early 90s – the number one thing with media – particularly newspapers – the number one question was, isn’t this networking thing just a fad? I know that sounds crazy. I remember the LA Times interviewing me and saying, this networking thing is just a fad and I’m like, not really. I mean, are sales a fad? Is relationship building a fad? I don’t think so. I kept telling the media that was interviewing me back then – sometimes radio – that no, this isn’t a fad. This is a way to do business. It’s another tool in your tool belt. And it’s a tool that has been really developed over the last 37 years. It really wasn’t developed much prior to that.

Brian  

I’m curious about the origin of BNI. What caused you to start an organization to help professionals grow their business skills and create opportunities through referral marketing?

Ivan  

Well, I’d like to tell you I had this vision of an international organization with groups all over the world, but the truth is I wanted some referrals for my consulting practice. I think BNI is a classic example of necessity being the mother of invention. I was a business consultant, I needed referrals. I put together people who I trusted, they trusted me and we referred each other. Someone came to that first group who couldn’t join because of a conflict; we had one person per professional classification at a chapter and her profession was [already] represented so she asked if I would help her open a second group. I actually told her no, this isn’t what I do, I’m a business consultant. She kind of talked me into it. I’m like, okay, fine, I’ll do it. We opened a second chapter, people came who couldn’t join because of a classification conflict; they asked me and I said, okay, and at the end of the year I had 20 groups without trying. I mean, I really wasn’t trying and I had 20 groups. And that’s when I had my Brody moment; do you remember the movie Jaws, and Chief Brody in Jaws? Towards the end of the movie he’s throwing chum out into the ocean and this big shark comes and he turns around to the captain, and he says to the captain of the ship, you’re gonna need a bigger boat. That was my Brody moment where I’m like, I’ve got 20 chapters of this thing, and I didn’t even plan on having two; what happened? I’m going to need a bigger boat. That’s when I realized that BNI could be a whole lot larger, and as you mentioned in the introduction, we have 10,800 groups now in more than 70 countries around the world.

Brian  

So when you had 20 chapters you knew that you needed a bigger boat. At what point did you realize that the success of BNI was going to explode worldwide and impact businesses and individuals to the extent it has?

Ivan  

The focus on international came a little later. But I went – this is back before Monsieur Google – I had actually go to a library; I went to a library in 1986. I was teaching at a university. So I just went into the university library and I started doing research on populations throughout North America. I calculated – it took a couple of months of checking out reference books and doing calculations – I calculated that BNI could someday – someday – have 10,000 chapters. I remember saying to a friend of mine – now this is 18 months after BNI started – I remember saying to a friend once, I think this BNI thing – because I was still running my consulting business, so BNI was a side effort – I said, you know, I think this BNI thing, someday, I think it could have 10,000 chapters. And he looked at me, and he said, and how many chapters do you have now, Ivan? I said, well, 30. And you think you could have 10,000? I said, yeah, I think we can have 10,000 chapters someday. And in 2020, in the middle of COVID, BNI crossed the 10,000 chapter mark. We now have over 10,000 chapters, and I thought that was possible. Honestly, I thought it would take longer than it did. I didn’t think it would happen in my lifetime. I thought it would take 70 years; it took 35.

Brian  

So when was that, that you mentioned the possibility of 10,000 chapters? That was in the mid to late 80s?

Ivan  

Oh, that was 1986. It was June of 1986. 

Brian  

That’s amazing. You had great foresight, obviously. Let’s get back to just the basics of networking. I think people have a general sense, or they think they do anyway, of what networking is. And most people – especially business people – understand the value, the importance, of networking. And yet, it’s interesting to me – and I’m sure it is to you – that very few people – and certainly, I guess, the 290,000 members of BNI notwithstanding – very few people outside of that have a comprehensive system for building their business and their network. Why is that?

Ivan  

Well, first of all, we don’t teach it in colleges and universities anywhere in the world. I don’t think we’re going to be teaching it anytime soon. People say to me, well, you should get the universities to teach it. I was an adjunct professor for 16 years, I’m now teaching again, this fall, an MBA program. I was also on the board of trustees for a university; moving a university is like moving the department of motor vehicles. The problem with networking is that classes are created by full-time tenured professors. Full-time tenured professors have never run a company; they teach business, they’ve never run a business – not really – they’ve been consultants, but they don’t run large companies. It’s the adjuncts, like myself and others, that run businesses and teach part-time. So I mean, think about it, Brian, we don’t even teach sales. I mean, come on, we don’t even give bachelor’s degrees in sales. We give kids bachelor’s degrees in marketing, and they don’t know how to close a sale. We have to send them to Brian Tracy to get sales training because the universities, it’s like, heaven forbid that I should get my hands dirty and make a sale. So the professors will teach social media because you don’t get your hands dirty with that. They’ll teach advertising; you don’t get your hands dirty with that. But they don’t teach sales and they don’t teach networking because it’s too sales-like and it’s a soft science and most universities, business schools – other than leadership – don’t teach a soft science. So I don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. I don’t care. I mean, it’d be nice, but the truth is, I’ll teach it. That’s why I’ve written so many books. That’s why we teach it in BNI. We teach people how to network. The problem with it not being taught early, though, is that most people think that networking is a face-to-face cold calling opportunity, because they don’t know any better. So what happens is they walk up to somebody and they say, Brian, my name is Ivan, let’s do business. Here are three or four copies of my business card; maybe you can refer me. It’s like, I don’t even know you. Why would I refer you? And so we get it wrong, because we’re not taught, we’re not trained how to do it. I think another thing that really turns people off about networking – and this is related to networking events specifically – I think when most people think of networking, they think about going to an event where they network. The challenge I see with that is I think most people visualize this sea of sharks where the fast talking extroverts in the room are holding court – which they do in those settings – in an attempt to sell whatever it is that they’re selling. I know that’s a stereotype but perception is reality and I know that kind of thinking causes people to shy away, certainly from networking events, and probably to engage in any form of networking. So how do we get past that? Well, it’s a reasonably accurate, I think, description of what often takes place with organizations that haven’t really trained their people how to network. I went to an event once in Europe and there were 900 people in the room. I saw all this face-to-face cold calling happening; everyone was trying to sell to each other. I asked everybody in the audience, I said, how many of you are here today hoping to maybe, just possibly, sell something? Brian, 900 people raised their hands. It’s like, yeah, I want to sell something. I said,  great. Second question, how many of you are here today hoping to maybe, just possibly, buy something? No one raised their hand; not one single person. This is what I call the networking disconnect. People show up at networking events wanting to sell but nobody’s there to buy. So if that’s the case, why go to networking events? Here’s the reason. You go to networking events to work your way through what I call the VCP Process:  Visibility, Credibility, Profitability. First, you have to be visible, people have to know who you are, and they’ve got to know what you do. And so you go to networking events to become visible and to make connections with people. Then you move towards credibility, where people know who you are, they know what you do, they know you’re good at it but that takes time. Getting from visibility to credibility takes time. Then, and only then, can you get to profitability. That’s where people know who you are, they know what you do, then are you good at it, and they’re willing to refer business to you because you are credible in the community. And so there is – what I talked about in several of my books – what I call the time confidence curve; that it takes a certain amount of time before people have confidence in your ability to provide a quality product or service. Until you hit that X point on the time competence curve, you’re not going to get referrals from very many people. So you’re going to networking events to build relationships so those relationships lead to referrals. Otherwise, you’re just doing face-to-face cold calling. And if all you do is hunt – networking is more about farming than it is about hunting – and if all you’re doing is hunting, you basically eat what you kill that day. You’re not you’re not farming, you’re not building relationships where you’re going to get referrals. You get referrals – if you have a good network – you get referrals when you’re on vacation, and your office can take care of them. But if all you’re doing is direct selling, then you only get business, if you’re out there hunting. Does that make sense?

Brian  

It makes total sense. What I hear you talking about is building trust. I always try to approach it first from the standpoint of adding value to the other person. There’s the old adage that we do business with people we know, like, and trust. Part of that; getting to know, getting to like, trusting a person, for me, is what kind of value is going both ways in the relationship. I try to – not that I’m not selling and don’t enter into conversations or events with certainly the hope or the intent of selling – but I try to turn the table and add value. What I found is that if you can add value to people, then they like you, and they trust you. And whether you end up doing business or not, it’s a great thing, because you’ve added value to a person, whether it’s through a connection or buying something from them, or however that’s done. There are lots of ways that we can add value to people transactionally and if something more than that happens, then that’s wonderful. But for me, it’s enough to have added value to somebody else. Obviously most people aren’t thinking about that. I don’t want to make it sound pollyannish; there are certainly times when I’m probably not the one adding the most value, but I think if we can approach it from that standpoint to begin with, we have a lot better shot of achieving our desired outcomes. I think the approach of adding value is right on the money and there are a lot of different ways to add value; you can give referrals, you can give advice, you can give support, you can give assistance in various ways. I mean, it’s about helping other people. And you’re right, on one hand it kind of sounds Pollyanna, but look, I’ve been doing this for 37 years. We generated 19 billion – 19 billion! Billion, with a “B” – $19 billion worth of business for our members just in the trailing 12 months. Brian, just so you know, $19 billion is twice the gross domestic product for the country of Liechtenstein. Okay, it’s a small country, I know. But still, how cool is that?!

Ivan  

$19 billion is a lot of money for anybody.  That’s a lot of money. To have a business organization generate more than the GDP of a small nation; now I’m looking for bigger nations. But still, to me, that is just amazing. And it happens from being Pollyanna. I mean, not really Pollyanna, but with this idea of what we call “givers gain.” You want to get business, give business, help other people. You help other people, they’re going to help you in return.

Brian  

Now, one of the things that I noticed, Ivan, whenever groups of people are gathered, is that there’s this dynamic where most people are trying to figure out who the most successful people are. Because of course, everybody wants to network with the wealthiest or the most successful people in the room. We want to be with the “important” people, in quotes. I know your strategy is a little different though. Tell us how the strategy that I’ve described is flawed and why, in fact, there’s merit and value in meeting anyone and focusing on the value of each interaction rather than the status of the person we’re interacting with.

Ivan  

So what you’re talking about, I actually have a presentation called “Networking Up” and it’s about networking above your weight class. Everybody wants to do that. I want to network with people that are above my weight class, too. However, the thing is, you get a lot of people who, that’s all they want to network with, they want to only network with people who are really, really successful, they want to network only with CEOs. They go to a networking event and they go, there’s not enough CEOs here, this isn’t worth my time. It’s like, okay, the CEOs are hiding from you. They don’t want to network with you. You know why –  not you personally, Brian, but I mean, people listening to this – because you’re trying to sell to them and they know it. CEOs have their own organization, where you’ve got to be a CEO or a top executive to be able to join because that reduces the amount of sales pressure that takes place when you go to a networking event. So look, if all you’re doing is to try to go to events where you’re [in] a room [full] of gazillionaires, guess again; it’s not going to happen. However, what you can do is network with quality business professionals, who will introduce you to another quality business professional, who will introduce you to another quality business professional. I call this the Butterfly Effect of networking. The Butterfly Effect is part of chaos theory. It talks about how the flapping of the wings of a butterfly change something in the environment, which changes something, which changes something, which changes the weather. In 2007, I had a solopreneur business coach – solopreneur business coach; I mean, I run a global organization, she is a solopreneur business coach – but she connected with me, asked me for a favor. I did it; she made an introduction, which made another introduction, which led to another introduction and to another introduction and two and a half years later, I’m on Necker Island with [Sir] Richard Branson, billionaire. And it all started because a solopreneur business coach asked me for a simple favor, which I said okay to, which led to something, which lead to something, which lead to something. You want to meet really successful people who are more successful than you? Start with people at where you’re at. Start with people below where you’re at, just be with really good people at what they do. Build relationships with people, because they will introduce you to other people, who introduce you to other people, who introduce you to other people. That’s how you network up, is you network peer to peer, you network below your weight class. You network well, and then you get to network up. Does that make sense?

Brian  

Well, that’s a great story, first of all, and there are a couple of great lessons in that and one of them is you just you never know. That’s the reason to have a conversation with everybody, because we don’t walk around with signs that have a list of the people we know, or our net worth, or our story. Oftentimes you need to get to know somebody, you develop a relationship with somebody, you peel away a couple of the layers and eventually – through this effect that you called the Butterfly Effect – things happen. But there’s no way that you could have predicted that in your initial conversation with that life coach, could you?

Ivan  

No, you can’t. But you also can’t…I talk about this from the perspective of fishing and a fisherman’s net. I met a person at a networking group once he said, well, I think I’m going to quit this networking group, because it’s all just by chance; I’m getting these referrals completely by chance. There was a member in the group whose mother just happened to need this service and she referred somebody, who referred them to me, and it was just by chance. I’m like, it’s not by chance, how many times have you gone to one of these networking meetings? He said, two years; about 100 times. There’s no chance involved, you’ve been going to these meetings 100 times. It’s like a fisherman who’s throwing out this net, into the ocean. From the fish’s perspective it’s total dumb luck that the net caught them, but not from the fisherman’s perspective. The fisherman is out there everyday throwing that net out. That’s what your network is about, is it’s being out there consistently. You want to be successful in business you’ve got to do six things one thousand times, not one thousand things six times. I see this all the time, in many aspects of business – in networking, in particular – where people are doing one thousand things six times, and they can’t figure out why they’re not being successful.

Brian  

That’s where the systems come into play. You need to be intentional; it’s not a haphazard just go out and talk to a whole bunch of people and hope that one of them knows Richard Branson.

Ivan  

Right. And would that person even introduce you? Because, I’ve had a lot of people say, oh, could you introduce me to Richard, I’ve got this product or service. I’m like, who are you? I don’t even know you, no, I’m not going to introduce you to Branson. You’ve got to have a relationship before you ask for…you know that old saying, Brian, it never hurts to ask. Totally wrong. It’s completely wrong, it definitely hurts to ask; if you ask the wrong person at the wrong time, it’s going to hurt your relationship. So you’ve got to build a relationship with somebody before you ask for a referral or asked to be introduced because when you give a referral, you give a little bit of your reputation away. If it’s a good referral, it enhances your reputation. But if it’s a bad referral, it hurts your reputation, which means the person’s got to trust you, to refer you. And that’s key in networking.

Brian  

Ivan, as I was prepping for the show, I came across a phrase that I hadn’t heard before; “givers gain.” And I know now that this is one of the core values of BNI. You have a book that came out not all that long ago, I think in the last two or three years, called “Infinite Giving,” which expands on this philosophy. What’s the essence of “givers gain?” And why is it important not only for networking, but also as a core value for how we live our lives?

Ivan  

Well, “givers gain” is our principle core value in BNI. I incorporated it into BNI early on in the process. To me, it’s more than a phrase, it’s a way of living one’s life. It’s a perspective to view and interact with the world. It’s an attitude, not an expectation. When it’s applied properly, it’ll change your life and when it changes enough lives, it’ll change the world. It’s predicated on that age old idea of what goes around, comes around. If I help you, I support you, I’m here to help you and assist you, you’re going to do the same for me in one way or another; [it] might not be exactly the same but it’s about building a relationship, building that trust and helping each other. The truth is, when people do that, that’s the way you generate $18 or $19 billion in business, because it comes down to people – know, like, and trust. Like you said, you’ve got to get to know each other and trust each other before you’re going to do business with each other. And “givers gain” is different; most networking organizations are all about, sell, sell, sell. What we try to do in BNI is about relationship, relationship relationship. When you have the relationship, it’s about helping. You want to build a relationship quickly, help somebody. You want to build a friendship quickly, help somebody. You do that you build the relationship. You build the relationship, they’re going to refer you. 

Brian  

That’s a great dynamic. It’s almost an immutable law that when you help people; in time something comes back to you. I’ve always said, it’s not it’s not the reason you do it, you do it to add value. It goes back to that add value, which for me is very important.

Ivan  

Of course, then you get the naysayers who say, yeah, well, I’ve got people that I’ve helped and they don’t help me back. Okay. That’s where “Infinite Giving,” – the book, “Infinite Giving” – we talk about that. It’s like okay, infinite giving doesn’t mean you’re an infinite victim. There’s this thing called discernment. You have to have discernment. When you have somebody who’s just a taker, and a taker, and a taker, that’s not the person that you want to build a relationship with; move on. You want to build a relationship with people who believe in having some type of reciprocal relationship, whether it’s you giving me referrals, or you giving me advice, or support or whatever. It’s a quid pro quo, where we’re helping each other but it’s not transactional. That’s where it gets ugly. It’s like, hey, Brian, like, I’ll do this for you but you got to do this for me in order for me to do that for you – that becomes transactional. That just doesn’t work with networking. It’s got to be relational. Hey, man, I’m happy to help you, what can I do for you? And then I do that enough, you’re going to do that for me.

Brian  

So along with not being transactional, I think you’re saying too, that we don’t keep score. So you don’t have a ledger with names and things that you’ve done for other people and how many things they’ve done for you.

Ivan  

I need to find a good phrase for that because you don’t really keep a regular tally. But at some point, you do need to do an audit on the relationship and say, is this a reciprocal relationship? Let’s talk about that for a moment because I’ve had people…one comes to mind in particular, who came to me and said, look, I know it’s about givers gain, and I know it’s about helping people, but I’ve given this person like, six referrals, and I think they’ve really worked out well and I haven’t gotten anything back. Nothing. I said, great, let’s sit down, let’s have a conversation with them. I said, you sit down with them, you have a conversation with them and ask them this question, or a series of questions. I said, first of all, the first thing you want to do is you want to go back to referral number one, and you want to say, how did that referral work out? And then go to referral number two; how did that referral workout? And then three, how did that referral…because you may find out in the conversation that none of those referrals – all those referrals you think are good – none of them might have been any good. What if the person says, yeah, they all sucked, I didn’t get any business out of it. I appreciate the thought, but I didn’t get any business out of it. Well, that completely changes the conversation. Now, what if three or four of those turned into business? What if they were almost all good referrals, and several of them turned into business? Then what you need to do is you need to say, I am really glad that those referrals worked out for you, I really am. I’m pleased that they worked out for you, it makes me feel really good. It would be great if we could have a conversation about how you might be able to help me get referrals like that from the contacts you have. See how they answer the question; this is where discernment comes in. Because if they just come up with yeah, I can’t refer people to you, then this is not a person you want to build a networking relationship with because they’re just in it for themselves. On the other hand, if they own up to not stepping up, then give them a chance. And in this particular case, Brian, absolute truth, the person said, I feel so embarrassed. I really feel embarrassed, you know how business is, and life, you just get caught up with stuff, I was really appreciative of these referrals. But I haven’t thought about the fact that you’ve been giving and giving and I haven’t given you anything back. And that’s not right; let’s see what we can do to to rectify that. And he did; he did. Over the next couple of months she got her first referrals from him. Because it just wasn’t in front of his face. Sometimes you’ve got to gently do that. So no, you don’t keep a tally but you also don’t want to be an infinite victim. Does that make sense? 

Brian  

It does make sense. In the situation that you described, is it helpful to have a proposed solution or ideas about how the person might be able to help you?

Ivan  

That was the conversation they had; here are the kinds of referrals that would be really good for me. Do you know any people like that? Could we talk about some people like that? And she actually walked away with two names from that meeting. Now, he said, let me call them and make sure that they’re actually in the market for the referral. One of them was not, but one was. And so as a result of that meeting, she got a referral within a week or so. And then he continued to follow up and he had several more referrals for her, one or two of which were good referrals and turned into business. So sometimes we just get so caught up in life, we forget to do what we should be doing. I mean, it happens to all of us. It’s happened to me. I had a friend named Alex who called me up once and he said, hey, I’ve got this idea for you, for your website – this is like 10, 15 years ago – I’m like Alex, our website’s okay – because I figured he was just trying to sell me something, I didn’t know him real well – he’s like, no, no, I just have an idea. I want to test this out, I’m not going to charge anything. I just want to test it out, to see if it works. Do you mind if I use your website to do it? I’m like, sure, if you want. And he did it and it was actually a pretty good idea, worked out pretty well. And then a couple months later, he had another idea, and another idea. It’s like, for eight or ten months, he kept coming to me with these ideas and he kept doing them. And once or twice, I was like, Alex, what can I do for you? You’ve been giving and giving and giving. He said, no, no, I’m good, I’m good, I’m good. So after about almost a year, Brian, he called me up one day, and he said, I have a favor to ask you. And I said, Alex, stop. The answer is yes. What is it I’ll be doing for you? He said, you don’t even know what it is. I said, first of all, we’ve known each other now for a little over a year, I can’t imagine you’re going to ask me for anything that I’m not going to be willing to do, and oh, by the way, you’ve done nothing but pour into me. You’ve given and given and given and I am going to do my best to say yes to whatever it is that you want. What is it you’d like? And he told me what it was and I was like, oh, man, that’s so easy; I’m happy to do that. And  for me it was easy; for him it was a big deal. That’s also part of givers gain; what’s big to you may not be big to me, or what’s big to me may not be big to you. So if I’m asking for what for me is a big favor, but for you is no big deal, it’s unequal but fantastic. Does that make sense?

Brian  

Well, it does and that’s a reason to ask. We talked earlier about it never hurts to ask; sometimes it does. But…

Ivan  

If you have the relationship, it’s okay to ask; if you don’t have a relationship, it hurts to ask.

Brian  

That makes sense. I think you’ve addressed this on some level already – I know you have – I think if we went back and listened to everything that we talked about, there would be lots of great tips packed into your responses, and I appreciate that. What are the three or four top things that successful networkers do that others don’t do?

Ivan  

Well, first of all, they immerse themselves in a culture of learning. There’s so much great content that’s out there; I’ve written dozens of books on the topic, there are other really good books. Susan Rowan’s got a book called “How To Work A Room,” fantastic book. Bob Berg has books on networking that are really good and so there’s a lot of content. I have a blog, IvanMisner.com [which has] 15 years of content, it’s all free. Go read, go read this stuff, develop the skill set, because you’re not learning it in school; that’s the first thing, is learn how to do this. Because if you just wing it, you’re going to probably do it wrong. The second is you’ve got to do one-to-one. You’ve got to meet with people and talk to them one-to-one. We found in BNI, that people who – and we found this by doing…it was part of a university study that studied a region in Europe, of BNI – they found that people who do one one-to-one a month – meet for an hour and just brainstorm how they can help each other – people who do one a month compared to people who do four a month: one per month versus four per month – the people who do four one-to-one [meetings] a month for about an hour give 100% more referrals – twice as many referrals. But here’s the beautiful thing. They receive 100% more referrals. So I tell people in BNI, you want to double the referrals that you’re getting? Yeah, of course. Do one one-to-one a week. That’s it, do one one-to-one a week. And you’ve got to do it right; you’ve got to have a system and a process for it. We give them something called the “gains exchange” to do it. But they’ll double the number of referrals. That’s the second thing. So one is lifelong learning, learn how to do…the second is do one-to-ones, and third is learn how to tell people what you do in a short period of time and recognize that when you’re networking, you’re not trying to sell. You’re trying to train a salesperson, not sell to somebody; train a sales force, not sell a product. That’s key in networking.

Brian  

That’s great advice. I appreciate that. Ivan, one of the concepts that I’ve written about quite a bit is the idea of surrounding yourself with success. I know you’ve had the privilege of investing time with many great people in the world and our listeners and viewers would recognize a lot of their names. You mentioned one of them, hanging out with Richard Branson on Necker Island, which was amazing. When I first started talking to people about the idea of surrounding yourself with success, I was referring mainly to the people around us. But one thing I’ve learned over time is it’s not just the people around us, it’s the environment; what we read – like you talked about – what we learn, what we listen to, how we dress, the decor in our office, what we’re surrounded by in the workplace. You write about this in your book, “Who’s In Your Room.” Tell us why it’s important to shape our lives by taking control of our metaphorical room and maybe explain a little bit about that, the room concept. And if you could, provide a couple of ways we can be more intentional about the design of our lives, rather than allowing others to shape what that looks like.

Ivan  

Well, there’s a lot in there, in that question. I’ll see if I can cover as much of it as possible in a short time. The concept of who’s in your room, it’s – I love this book, it’s one of my favorite books that I’ve done – the concept is imagine you live your life in one room, and that one room has only one door, and that one door is an enter only door so that when people come into your life or into your room, they’re there forever; you can never get them out. Now, luckily, this is a metaphor. But if it were true, Brian, would you be more selective about the people that you’ve let into your life? (Brian:  Absolutely.) Yeah, that’s what everybody says. And so I would argue that it’s actually not just a metaphor, that there’s a lot of truth to it and here’s why. What I want you to do, Brian, is I want you to think of somebody that was in your life and you got them out. Now, I’m not going to ask you to tell us who it is but I want you to have the person in your mind; you got them out of your life. Because people tell me, you can get them out of your room. It’s not a big deal. Let’s say you got somebody out of your life. They were caustic, they were toxic, they were difficult. So do you have somebody in mind, Brian? (Brian:  Yes.) Okay, I want you to think of the last thing they did that just made you mad as a hornet, and why you wanted them out of your life. You got that? (Brian:  Yes.) So if you’re watching this, or listening to this, you’ve got to be doing the same thing, because somebody got out of your life, and why you got them out of your life. But here’s the thing, if you’re still thinking, if you can still remember the stuff they did, they’re still in your head. And they’re going be in your head for the rest of your life. Because the room begins on one side of your head and ends on the other side of your head. It’s your brain, it’s your your mind, it’s your experiences in life; your room is your mind. One of the people we interviewed, Dr. Daniel Amon, said the people that you build any kind of relationship [with], professional or personal, their fingerprints are all over your brain for the rest of your life. So you’ve got to be selective about the people that you let into your head, the people that you surround yourself with. You’ve got to learn how to curate your room based on your values, which means you’ve got to get good with your values, got to know what your values are, what’s okay with you, what’s not okay. That’s one of the ways that you’re able to curate the room more effectively. One of the other things that you need to do is you need to learn how to say no, without sounding like a jerk, or worse. So these are all techniques that you use to apply to the room concept to create the room of your dreams. I think you can do that. The last thing we talk about in the book is this whole idea of balance, life balance.

Brian  

That’s actually my next question. But before I asked you about that, I want to say just a side conversation with our listeners and viewers, for a minute. What Ivan shared in the last couple of minutes; I want you to go back and listen to again, and listen to it again, and again, and really grasp that concept. Make that a part of your life. We’ve talked about a lot of great networking tips and those are great too, but what Ivan just shared about who’s in your room, and who’s in your head, and who’s taking up space in your life, and what effect that’s having on you, is more powerful maybe than everything else combined. So please go back and listen to that again. Let me add one thing to it, Brian, because you were talking about things and listening to things. When I was diagnosed with cancer ten years ago, one of the first things I did was I cut out – I like TV, I like movies – I cut out really violent TV programs and movies because I just felt like this isn’t what I want in my head right now. I ended up watching a lot more stand-up comedians and comedy because this was the stuff I wanted in my head. And I know it sounds a little crazy – and I’m not very woo-woo guy, I’m really not, I’m a business guy – but I recognized that I wanted to be in the right headspace to get well. And I have found that I’ve not gravitated back to those really violent shows. I spend a lot more time watching comedy and I think I’m in a better place as a result of it. But alright, you were going to ask about balance. You mentioned balance and I’ve read a lot about work-life balance and it’s interesting to me how you address it because it’s very unique. We both agree that there’s no such thing as work-life balance. But share your thoughts, if you would, about what we should strive for if it isn’t balance.

Ivan  

Sure, when I’m doing a presentation at a large event, I’ll come on in and somebody will ask me about work-life balance, and I’ll say, okay, I’ve got the secret to balance, are you ready? And they lean in, like, yeah, what is it? Forget about balance, it’s not possible. Usually you hear people groan, it’s like, oh, god, I thought I was going to hear something really good. Well, I think I got something good. The problem with looking at life from a balance is it’s like scales, your personal life has to be in balance with your business life, which has to be in balance with your spirituality and your health; it’s got to all be in balance. The truth is, life is more of a juggling act than it is a balancing act. And while I don’t think it’s possible to have balance, I do believe it’s possible to have a life of harmony. And this isn’t just semantics. Even the graphic for harmony – the yin and the yang – are out of balance if you separate them. You put them together and it’s the graphic for harmony. So there are a number of things – and I talk about it in “Who’s In Your Room,” – there are a number of things that you can do that help you lead a life of harmony; maybe not balance, but harmony. I’ll give you two or three of them right now. One is be here now, wherever you are, be there. Don’t be at work, thinking about the fact that you didn’t spend time with the family last night; don’t be at home with the family thinking about the project that’s got to get done at work. Be here now. When my son was 17, we’re sitting in front of a big screen TV, and we’re playing Halo and we were leveling up to some other…I think it’s 28 now, we’re leveling up to some other level – and by the way, he’s kicking my butt in Halo – and I said to him, I said, buddy, was I around enough for you, when you were growing up? He’s like, what? You were around all the time. [I said] like, I don’t know if you notice, but I’m gone every other week. I’m traveling every other week for several days. He said, I know, but when you’re here, you’re here – can we get back to the game now? And I’m like, yes, we can, we can get back to the game now. That’s what I’m talking about by be here now. So I traveled – I have 2.5 million miles on just one airline – so I travel a lot. And I did as my kids were growing up, but I tried to be present for them. Be here now. Second, create margins in your life. Create margins, where you have time for yourself, you take time off. These entrepreneurs who say, I haven’t had a vacation in three years; you’re an idiot! Take vacation time, you need to recharge your batteries, it’s critical. You have to create margins in your life. And last – well, I’ve got a whole list of them in the book but I’ll give you one more – you have to learn how to both hold on and let go; both. You hold on to the things that are true to your values and you hold on for dear life. You let go of everything that’s not congruent with your values. This idea that you can have it all is BS; you can’t. I know some of the people who stand on stage and say, you can have it all – trust me, I know them, they don’t. They don’t. I know some of these guys, and they don’t have it all. They have a great business, but their personal life sucks. Or they’re talking about personal lives and their business is horrible. So you can’t have it all; pick and choose. But pick and choose based on your values. You do these kinds of things, and you’re going to have a life of harmony. My life has been out of balance, but my life is full of harmony.

Brian  

That’s terrific, Ivan, thanks for sharing that. And again, that’s from the book “Who’s In Your Room,” so if there’s only one of the 27 books that you pick up – I encourage you to obtain more than one of them – but “Who’s In Your Room”  is the one that I’m going to get next, so I appreciate that.

Ivan  

Thanks. And if you’re going to do networking, pick up “Networking Like A Pro.” It’s a really good book on networking that I’ve done. Get the second edition, not the first, [get the] second edition.

Brian  

I can’t let you go without asking about the BNI Foundation. This is a foundation that you started with your late wife Elizabeth. The organization has been serving children and education since 1998, so you started it fairly soon after the start of BNI. Improving educational opportunities for children is clearly important to you. How did that lead to starting a foundation? Again it started pretty quick, share a little bit if you would, Ivan, about the impact you’re making.

Ivan  

Well, I think I, as a business person, a successful business person, I have an obligation to put back into the communities from which I draw. I think we all do. But I will speak for myself; I think I have an obligation to do that and so I have, in one way or another, supported charitable organizations. As a young man, I was a Big Brother and then I was a Rotarian and then got on the board for a boy’s home. These were the ways I put back into the community. When I was able to, by 1998, I, with my late wife, started the BNI Foundation. We’ve given millions of dollars to children and education. Children represent 20% of our population, but they are 100% of our future. They are the future. And so things that we can do for children today will change the world tomorrow. That has been our focus for the BNI foundation since we started it in 1998. We now have branches of the BNI foundation in probably about ten countries around the world. It’s really quite exciting.

Brian  

I really applaud you for the work you’re doing and I wish you the best of continued success with BNI. Ivan, thank you so much for being on the show today. It’s been great getting to know you. I appreciate all the wisdom and practical advice you’ve shared, not just about networking, but about success in life.

Ivan  

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Can I leave you with one last idea?

Brian  

Absolutely.

Ivan  

You know the old phrase, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know? (Brian:  Sure.) I don’t think it’s either. I don’t think it’s what you know, or who you know. It’s how well you know each other that makes a difference. It’s, can I pick up the phone and call that person? Would they take my call and if I asked for a favor would they be willing to do it? It’s not just who you know, it’s how well you know each other. So the most important idea with networking is build meaningful relationships with people so that you can really be there and support one another. Brian, thanks so much for inviting me. I really appreciate being on the show.

Brian  

Thank you again, Ivan. Thanks for tuning into LifeExcellence. Please support the show by subscribing, sharing it with others, posting about today’s show with networking expert Ivan Misner on social media, and leaving a rating and review. You can also learn more about me at BrianBartes.com. Until next time, dream big dreams and make each day your masterpiece.