Show Notes

• Legally blind at age 19
• Leber’s Hereditary Optic Neuropathy (LHON), a rare genetic disorder
• The five stages of grief
• A whole new world – the USBGA
• Jeremy’s dad – from good friend to guide
• Sharing his story as an inspirational speaker
• Independence is good, but interdependence is great
• Raising money for LHON through the C.U.R.E. Ride

Connect With Jeremy Poincenot

Website – https://www.jeremypoincenot.com/
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/jeremypoincenot/
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremypoincenot/

Additional Resources

To join Jeremy’s email list, text SEE to 55444

Summary

When Jeremy Poincenot lost his vision at the age of 19, he thought the game of golf he loved was over. He would go on, however, to win three World Blind Golf Championships, and eight National Championships. Jeremy shares how we can take control of life, and turn trauma into triumph.

Full Transcript

Brian:

Welcome to another episode of Life Excellence with Brian Bartes. Join me as I talk with amazing athletes, entrepreneurs, authors, entertainers, and others who have achieved excellence in their chosen field so you can learn their tools, techniques, and strategies for improving performance and achieving greater success.

At age 19, Jeremy Pioncenot, was your typical college sophomore—friends, sports, fraternity, and most importantly, perfect 20/20 vision. Then his life began to blur, literally, with no warning and no time to prepare. Over the next few months, Jeremy lost his sight due to a rare genetic disorder that affects a mere 100 people in the US each year. When Jeremy lost his central vision, he thought he would never play golf again. Instead, and with a tremendous amount of hard work, dedication, and the support of his family and friends, including his dad as his guide, Jeremy competed in and won the 2010 World Blind Golf Championship. They have since gone on to win two more world championships, eight national championships, the Australian Blind Open and the Italian Blind Open. In 2011 Jeremy was honored as the San Diego Hall of Champions Challenged Athlete Of The Year. Today, Jeremy is a motivational speaker, sharing his story around the world and inspiring audiences to take control of their life and turn adversity into triumph. He also strives to raise awareness of Leber’s Hereditary Optic Neuropathy, LHON. With the help of his friends he created the CURE Ride, which stands for Cycling Under Reduced Eyesight. This is an annual fundraising bike ride that has raised over $350,000 for LHON research. Jeremy has been featured on ABC’s 2020, ESPN.com, CNN’s Great Big Story, and MTV’s True Life and has spoken for companies that include Aflac, Honda, John Hancock and Wells Fargo. Welcome Jeremy, and thanks so much for joining us today on Life Excellence.

Jeremy:

Thanks for having me, Brian, that was a long intro.

Brian:

There’s a lot to talk about and we have a lot more to talk about. So let’s jump right into it. Jeremy, by all accounts, you had a fairly normal life growing up. I know you love to play golf and you were pretty good too. Tell us more about what life was like growing up for you.

Jeremy:

I grew up in San Diego, California, and so there’s no complaining over here. Life was great. Got two younger siblings, two incredible parents, and my life was trending in the right direction. Everything was fantastic. I loved golf, played it frequently—played three years varsity in high school and played every Sunday from when I was 12 until I was 17 with my dad. Every Sunday, that’s what I looked forward to doing was playing an 18 hole match with my dad. Sometimes he’d beat me. Sometimes I would beat him, but it was a lot of fun and I really got to be good at the game—quite good, not great, but quite good. I’m not good enough to play D1 college golf but wanted to have a D1 college experience. So I went off to San Diego State and everything was going great.

Brian:

And so you’re there, you’re a student at San Diego State University taking classes. I think you had joined a fraternity, and then everything changed. Walk us through how that happened. And how did you react initially to that?

Jeremy:

I was walking around on campus during my sophomore year. Like you said, joined a fraternity my freshman year, everything was fantastic. I had a great freshman year, had a great start to my sophomore year. And as a 19 year old sophomore I’m walking around on campus with a group of friends, noticed I had to squint to read a sign and thought, okay, I need glasses. I’ve got friends in the fraternity who have glasses and some wear contacts, like, okay, I guess it’s my turn to do that. And when I went to see the optometrist—actually the day before Thanksgiving—he ran some tests on me, tests that I’m sure your listeners and viewers have done. You know, what do you see better with? One or two, two or three? And everything was fine until he had me cover my left eye. And when I covered my left eye, I couldn’t see anything on the eye chart. I couldn’t even see the big “E”. So I thought, okay, maybe I’m gonna need some thick glasses. And that wasn’t the case. Over the next few months, my vision drastically deteriorated. I had lost my central vision in my right eye. That’s what caused me to squint and think that I needed glasses. And then in a matter of months that went to my left eye as well. So it went from perfect 20/20 in a matter of months to where it is now—I have no central vision and am now legally blind.

Brian:

And so how quickly…this progressed over a period of time, it sounds like part of it was immediate. And then the deterioration was, you said, over a few months. As that was happening how quickly did you have the thought, oh, geez, I’m never going to be able to play golf again?

Jeremy:

I, honestly, at that point, golf was the furthest thing from my mind because it was like, I’ve lost my central vision. All of a sudden I’m now legally blind. Golf is the last thing I’m thinking about. I’m thinking about, am I going to even be able to continue on with school? Are my friends going to still accept me now that I’m “different” than I was before, and how am I going to even cross the street safely? So those were the things that were top of mind for me. I didn’t even think about golf for a period of time. And if it did cross my mind, I just kind of wrote it off as something that I would probably never do again.

Brian:

And so how did that progress is as your eyesight was deteriorating? How did you have to start to compensate that? And how did your life change? What happened prior to that? Probably the day of or the day before your optometrist appointment, you were going to classes, you were working on homework and then things changed rapidly after that. How did your life start to change?

Jeremy:

Oh, man, well, it was interesting because in that period of time I thought I just needed glasses. And then the optometrist was like, okay, this is way bigger than that. Then my family and I went on what we call the medical mystery tour. The optometrist thought I might have a brain tumor. So on Thanksgiving day I got an MRI done. I did not have a brain tumor, which we were thankful for, but we’re still like, well, what’s going on, what’s causing this? So over that period of months where my vision’s deteriorating, but I am still trying to find out what’s causing it, it was all a blur—literally and figuratively—where it was like, we’re trying to find out what’s going on, all while my sight’s deteriorating. But I was in this mindset of maybe it’s going to come back or they’re going to find out what it is and then they’re going to give me some sort of drug or some treatment and my sight will come back. So I was telling fraternity brothers like, hey, we’re going to laugh about this five years from now. I’ve been legally blind now, 13 years. So I thought I was going to regain my sight in some way, somehow. And that wasn’t the case. So after that period of time, when I was finally diagnosed with LHON, okay, one, it was like, okay, cool, we have an answer, but find out that LHON has no treatment and no cure. So now doctors are telling me, okay, you’re going to be legally blind the rest of your life. So all of a sudden, I’m now legally blind. We now have an answer. And I immediately go into the stages of grief. We can talk about those, but it started with denial. I first denied that what was happening was actually happening and was really at a loss and disbelief. I really felt like I was living a nightmare and felt like at some point someone was going to shake me and I was going to wake up in my bed like, whoa, that was a trip. But yeah, that wasn’t the case. It was real life.

Brian:

And at what point were you diagnosed as having LHON? How long was that after you were squinting and went to the optometrist? 

Jeremy:

Probably two months. And that’s thanks to my mom. My mom…during that medical mystery tour period doctors were saying, I think he has this disorder, I think he has that. And my mom is incredible. She rolled up her sleeves, was doing tons of research, was looking everywhere, trying to find out what was causing this. And she was the first person to bring to doctors’ attention LHON and say, hey, I think this is what my son has. And doctors were saying, no, it’s too rare. We don’t think that’s what it is. And she ended up being right. She says, let’s get a blood test. Let’s get a test, a genetic test, done to see if that’s what he has. And finally they did it and that’s what proved what I had, so then we went and started seeing an LHON specialist. And that was helpful.

Brian:

I can’t even imagine having full sight and then not having sight and everything that had to have been running through your mind. I was talking to somebody yesterday about it and sort of thinking about when we were 19 and in college and what was happening and what an incredible interruption—it doesn’t even come close to describing it—but what an interruption that must have been. You’re probably familiar with Viktor Frankl’s book, Man’s Search For Meaning. And I was thinking about that in preparing for our time together today. For those of you who don’t know, Frankl was an Austrian psychiatrist and a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp during World War II. And one of the things he wrote about was the idea that you don’t always have a choice about what happens. We don’t always have a choice about what happens to us, but we do have a choice about how we react to it. Obviously Jeremy, you had all kinds of feelings and you’ve shared some of them and how your life started to change and the stages that you were going through in relationship to that, and the impact loss of sight would have on your life. How was it that you were able to…and you’re 19, so you’re still sort of in your formative years, your frontal lobe hasn’t fully developed and you’re in this great time in life in college. How was it that you were able to avoid just sort of throwing in the towel, so to speak, and really going into a dark place, whether it’s feeling sorry for yourself, or whatever emotions you must’ve been feeling?

Jeremy:

I definitely felt sorry for myself and I went through that period of time. So those five stages of grief, it started with denial. I denied that what had happened to me, had actually happened, it was this believing that it was a nightmare. And then reality set in, and I went to the second stage and that’s anger. I was mad. I was mad for this happening to me. Like why? I didn’t understand it. I was mad at the world. Then I went to bargaining. I started to say, please, whatever I need to do to make things go back to the way they were, I’ll do it. Like I thought I was a good human being. I thought I treated people with respect. I’ll be even kinder. I’ll do whatever, like to be able to drive again. And I started to bargain. And then again, reality sets in. Then depression is the fourth stage. And I was definitely depressed. I was at a loss for understanding it and comprehending it because, like you said, I was 19, in my formative years, I had independence, which I have been longing for my whole life. I was living with fraternity brothers in an apartment and just loving life. And now I’m legally blind and scared to leave that apartment, or even know if I can go back to that apartment to continue on with school. And then the fifth and final stage is acceptance. But research says, it takes on average two years to go from a traumatic life experience to reaching acceptance. For me, I’d say it took at least a year, year and a half, to get to acceptance, and I’d say it wasn’t possible to do so without others. My mom and finding LHON and practically diagnosing me and then getting me to an LHON specialist. My dad becoming my guide in blind golf, and we can discuss that. My siblings were extremely supportive and driving me places or helping me out in different ways around the house. My brother, my little brother who, when I was 19, he was 13. He was helping me with technology and teaching me how to zoom in and out on my laptop and use things to use voice over on my phone. And that was extremely helpful. I was resistant or reluctant to get the help, but when he was helping me, it’s stuff that I still use to this day. And then I have really good friends who were supportive and were there for me and said that they would help me get back to school if I wanted to. So all of that really helped me get through to acceptance. And then someone said something to me, years after I lost my sight. And when I reached acceptance and that—I also want to say, you don’t reach acceptance and then you never go back to any of the first four stages. It’s not a linear progression and you reach acceptance, and then you can kind of clap your hands and say, I’m good. You go back and kind of ping pong around them. So I think they should really be called the five states of grief more than the five stages. But when I reached acceptance and owned this and realized that it is what it is, like you said, I didn’t choose this, but I’m going to choose how I react to it. Someone said something to me that was really powerful, that I’ll never forget. And this woman said to me, you’re allowed to visit the poor me house, but you aren’t allowed to move in. And I thought that was really powerful because I think we are all going to go through trauma and tough times in our lives. And we kind of feel like, oh, I can’t feel bad or I can’t be too upset about it. I need to…I’m going to be okay, we’re going to get through this. And I think we need to realize that it’s okay to be upset and it’s okay to grieve. And it’s okay to think poor me, why me, but only for a period of time, and then we need to move on. And then what I didn’t actually mention in all the help that I got, was I saw a blind psychologist for a year, year and a half. And that was extremely helpful to go through therapy and talk with someone who could truly empathize with my situation. He was totally blind, lost his sight, all of his sight, at 33 due to diabetes. And where my friends and family were helpful, he truly understood what I was going through and could understand on an empathetic level. And I really enjoyed our conversations together. And that was really helpful.

Brian:

Well and obviously that’s the highest level of empathy, right? Not only someone who is blind and is trained to help people with blindness, but somebody who like you, had sight and then didn’t have sight. You talked about the people who helped you and help you today. But your younger siblings, your parents, your friends, I talk a lot about surrounding yourself with success, and obviously that was critical for you. And we’re going to talk about some of the ways that that’s impacted you and how you’ve grown and the lessons that you’ve learned from that. But I’m curious, what lessons do you think your younger brother has learned through this experience, or your parents, or your friends? So people who probably had no context for impairment or disability, and now they have someone who’s very close to them, either a close friend or a family member, who has a pretty significant disability, that’s going to alter how you do life. What have they learned and how have they grown through the experience, do you think?

Jeremy:

Good question. I think they learned that I went through a traumatic life experience, which is tough to see. It’s tough to watch someone go through something like that. You don’t wish that on anybody. And then to be a family member and see someone go through that is traumatic in its own right. But when you’re there and you support them and you’re there for them, you see that they’re gonna deal with that challenge, that obstacle, they’re going to get through it eventually. Like it’s not a snap your fingers and you’re okay. It takes time. But when they do finally get through it, you realize that they’re the same person. Like, I’m a very sarcastic person, I like to joke. I like to get people laughing. I like to have a good time. But that kind of went away for a period of time after I lost my sight. I wasn’t cracking too many jokes. I wasn’t very upbeat. But when I got through to acceptance and I kind of adjusted, adapted, and accepted my new reality, I was still Jeremy—just, I’m now legally blind. And I think that’s what my family saw is, he was who he is, he wasn’t the same person at that time [but] we’re going to be there for him and help him get through this. And then when I got through it, I’m still the same person. I just do things differently or need more support or help in different areas. And now I crack jokes—blind jokes as well.

Brian:

I’m going to ask you about that. I know you have a great sense of humor and we’re going to talk more about that. I want to jump into golf though, if that’s okay. Jeremy, when I think about your ability to play golf, especially at a high level, like you do, I’m absolutely amazed. As anyone who’s ever played golf knows, golf is a very challenging sport, even with perfect vision. And I just can’t even imagine playing without sight. And I’m sure our listeners and viewers, and unless they’ve had some experience with it, which they probably haven’t, I’m sure they can’t imagine it either. Can you walk us through…let’s just jump right into it and walk us through a typical hole. Let’s say it’s a 350 yard, par four, dog-leg to the right—starting with walking up to the tee. So how do you play that hole from start to finish? Help us to appreciate that.

Jeremy:

So the first thing I’d say is golf, we all know it as an independence or an individual sport where you’re doing it on your own. Blind golf is a team sport. So every blind golfer has a guide, someone who helps them out on each and every shot. And for me, that was an easy choice. That’s my dad, my dad’s my guide in every competitive round of blind golf that we play in.

So we’ll pull up to that tee box. We’ll get out of the cart and he’ll tell me what you just said. Okay. 350 yard, par four dog-leg to the right. Then we’ll discuss, okay, what kind of shot do we want to hit off the tee? I would say in that scenario, we probably want to hit a hybrid off the tee. We’ll hit it. It won’t go as far as the driver, it’ll be a little straighter. We’ll probably hit the fairway with it. And if we don’t, we won’t be too far off the fairway. So we’ll make our decision on the club. We choose hybrid. Then we go through our routine. I tee the ball up, and then I take a practice swing with the hybrid. Then my dad kind of points in the direction we want to hit the shot. I try to envision where he’s pointing. I don’t, frankly, know where he’s pointing, but it’s part of our routine and we make it work. And then I step over the ball. And from behind, he looks at my feet and tells me to go a little more right or left, kind of like a video game. And then if my club face is on the toe or the heel or something, he’ll tell me that and I’ll maneuver my body or where I’m located based on that. And then when he says, I’m good, I pull the trigger, hit the shot, and we’ve now hit our tee shot. Then we go and go to where that has ended up and we assess where we are from there. So let’s just say we hit it 200 yards and we now have 150 in, let’s say we hit the fairway because of course we’re going to, of course we hit the fairway. So we’ve got 150…

Brian:

Right down the middle.

Jeremy:

Of course, right down the middle, we got 150 in, from the middle of the fairway. Where’s the pin located, Brian, where is the pin?

Brian:

The pin is in the back right.

Jeremy:

The pin’s back right. Okay, great. So we’ve got 150 in, back right pin. So it’s going to play a little longer than 150, let’s say. We’ll discuss that. He’ll tell me pin’s back right. And what I would say is, okay, let’s play the 150 shot unless there’s wind that we need to account for, but again, we’re middle of the fairway. There’s no breeze at all so we’re ready to rock. We’ll pull the 150 club for me. I’ll hit a nine iron. And then go through the same routine, pull up the nine iron, we’ve made our decision. I’ll do the practice swing step over the ball from behind. He looks at me and tells me right or left. I would say let’s aim me middle of the green. And if I hit a cut towards the pin, fantastic, or if it goes straight or on the middle of the green. I hit it. Oh, it’s flush. It’s got a little cut on it. So that’s a good thing. I can feel if I put a little cut on it, I can feel if I put too much cut on it. But that one, I hit it with a good cut. So then my dad will say it’s cutting towards the pin. That’s what I want to hear. Because once I make contact with it, it’s gone. I can somewhat see the ball below me but not very well. And I’m looking a little bit above it. And then once I make contact, that’s gone, he says it’s cutting towards the pin. Great. That’s what I want to hear. It lands. We’ve got a ten footer. Great. We go there. And then I’ll pace it, I’ll feel it off with my feet. So I’ll walk it off. A ten footer would be just over three paces, three yards. So I’ll feel that in my feet, I’ll come back to my dad. He’s kind of looking at it with his eyes and I’ll say, hey dad I paced it off. I feel three paces, just a little more than that. And it’s uphill. I feel it breaking to the right with my feet. What do you think? And he’ll say, yeah, I see that. I see it breaking two balls from the left to the right. So we’ll aim two balls left of the cup. It’s three paces uphill. I’ll say, what do you want me to play it? And he says three and a half. Okay. I like that. So I’m mentally thinking, what would a three and a half pace putt on a flat, feel like? So I go up and I do that with my routine. I feel what three and a half would be like. I step over the ball. I’ve got a putter with a line on it. So from behind he’s looking at it and says go more left or right based on that line we chose. He says, you’re good. I stroke it—that feels like is three and a half. And then I listen for it to go in. That’s my talking you through the hole.

Brian:

See, and the difference between you and me is the way you describe it, Jeremy, it’s you’re like a robot and you hit the ball very consistently. And so all that has to happen for you to do well is your dad has to sort of aim you in the right direction and you talk through it. You must have been a very good golfer prior to losing your sight. Is that the case?

Jeremy:

Yeah, I got down to a four handicap in high school and was playing five days a week. So yeah, I was, I got pretty good in high school.

Brian:

Oh that…it’s just phenomenal. And I really appreciate you walking us through that hole. It’s very helpful to visualize that. I’m sure there are a number of organizations that support people with different impairments or disabilities. But unless you have one or know somebody that does we don’t tend to be aware of it at all. How did you learn that blind golf was even a possibility? Talk about how your career evolved after you lost your sight. And at what point did you start to get into golf? Because you won the world championship within a couple of years, I think, of having lost your sight, if I remember correctly. So walk us through that time.

Jeremy:

So again, my mom, who’s doing tons of research and found LHON was then like, okay, we found LHON, I found a specialist, I’m done being his medical supporter, like we found someone who’s better than me. Then she was like, okay, what can we do to help him with his happiness and his mental health? She was doing research and found the USBGA, the United States Blind Golf Association. And she got really excited. She started have these grandiose ideas of, wow, Jeremy can start competing in tournaments, and there’s a world championship every other year. He could play in that. And, oh my gosh, this is going to be so great for him. And so she presented me with it and said, there was a United States Blind Golf Association, these golfers playing tournaments all over the world. This is exciting, right? And I was like, no, not really. Like, that’s cute. I don’t…how do blind people play golf? I didn’t comprehend it. Didn’t understand it. I didn’t think it was real. And then, not only that, there were two things that came with it. One, I didn’t want to play blind golf at first because I had an expectation level of how I played golf before I’d lost my sight. I knew what scores I would shoot. If I shot in the seventies, low eighties, that’s kind of what I was used to. And I knew that I would be nowhere near that. So would I even enjoy it, I don’t know. So I was very reluctant to try to play it. And then the second thing was, when I was fully sighted and played golf, one of my least favorite things was slow play. And to me, blind golf sounded like the epitome of slow play. So when my mom presented me with blind golf, I at first said no. And after a period of time, I mean with time and space, things tend to get better. I started to digest the idea a little more.

My dad actually worked in the golf industry. He worked at Callaway Golf at the time. And before I lost my sight, he had gotten me a new set of irons that he was going to give me that Christmas. I lost my sight around Thanksgiving time and was legally blind by that Christmas. And he’s like, do I give him the iron’s? Do I not give him the irons? And he ended up giving them to me. And I thought it was a sick joke. I was not happy with it. I thought he was dangling a carrot in front of a blind guy who couldn’t see the carrot. And it was like, these are nice, but these are going to collect dust somewhere. I’m not going to play. And after some time he said, hey, do you want to go to the range? And I said, no, I’m good. One time I finally said, you know what, I’ll go to the range with you. I’ll go hit some balls with these new irons. I’m not going to slow anyone down if I’m hitting balls on the range, so why not? So I said, I’ll do it with you. And I said, if I miss one, like if I swing and miss, I’m done, I’m not doing this anymore, dad. Like that was my one and only shot. So I didn’t swing and miss on any and hit some pretty flush and couldn’t see any of them where they went. But man, I could feel how good some of those felt. And it’s like, wow, I remember that, cool. That feels good. And after a period of time [I] said, okay, dad, I’ll play a round of golf with you. Let’s try it. And we did, [we] didn’t play great and probably played pretty slow, but it felt good to be out in an environment that I knew and doing something that I loved and doing it again. So that was exciting. And so we did a couple of rounds like that. And then we played in our first blind golf tournament, I want to say, August after the year I’d lost my sight, after that November period, I lost my sight. So what, nine months after I’d lost my sight, we played in our first blind golf tournament. And then played in a couple other after that. And we’ve done pretty well together.

Brian:

Help us to appreciate what that world looks like. I’m guessing there aren’t thousands of blind golfers playing in these tournaments, but I don’t know, maybe there are. A world championship or a national championship or the Australian Open or the Italian Open that you won, how many people are competing in these tournaments?

Jeremy:

In the world championship you probably have about 60 competitors. And they’re from all over. The one in 2010 that my dad and I won there were 60 competitors from 14 different countries. And in blind golf, there are three different sight categories. We all know that 20/20 is perfect vision. So there’s the B-3 sight category, which has folks who have worse than 20/200 vision, which is legal blindness, to 22/600 vision. Then there’s the B-2 sight category. That’s my sight category, which is worse than 20/600, but not totally blind. And then you have the B-1s who are totally blind and they can’t see a thing. And quite frankly, they are who inspire me. I have complete peripheral vision. I’m not able to read, drive, distinguish faces. But these folks who are B-1 are totally blind. Can’t see a thing. They need a lot more help from their guides on the golf course, but they shoot some incredible scores. And they’re some of my favorite people on the planet because when you go to a blind golf tournament, what’s really cool is not one single competitor there is complaining about their lack of sight. If someone who doesn’t know anything about blindness or has never met someone who’s blind or visually impaired before came and saw 60 blind golfers all in a room, they might go, oh man, I feel bad for them. Or I feel bad for this person or, oh, wow, they lost their sight at 19, I couldn’t imagine that. But come sit down with us while we’re having a beer after the round, and we’re all laughing about, oh, you made a bogey on that hole, what happened? Oh, wow, yeah, I made a double or this is what happened to me and oh, my dad lined me up wrong on this shot. Tell me what your guy did to mess you up. And we’re just cracking jokes, having a good time. And we’re out there doing something that we love. We all, all of us who are blind or legally blind, we’ve gone through challenging times. But we got off the couch, we got off our butts and we’re doing something that we truly love and we’re doing something we’re passionate about. So it’s really fun to spend time with the folks in the blind golf world.

Brian:

Well, and I applaud you for that because not only are you inspired by the people that you’re playing with and people who are more blind than you, or totally blind, but obviously you’re an inspiration to others and that’s why it was so compelling to have you on the show and have you share your story with our listeners and viewers. So I really appreciate that.

Jeremy:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Brian:

Jeremy, you’ve referred to your dad more than once as your guide when you play. And I heard you—either read an interview or saw an interview, where you talked about the difference between Phil Mickelson winning a golf tournament and you winning a golf tournament and you use the pronoun, we—we played in a tournament, we won a tournament. Your dad is your caddy, obviously. He’s your guide, but he’s so much more than that. And I can tell just in talking to you, I’m guessing you had a pretty close family growing up, and it seems like that strengthened your relationships with your siblings, your relationships with your parents. Help us to understand how your relationship was with your dad prior to losing your sight and how has it evolved since then.

Jeremy:

Prior to losing my sight, my dad and I were like buddies, playing golf every Sunday from when I was 12 til I was 17. I would have friends who would stay up late Saturday nights going to do things. And I’m like, well, I got a tee time with my dad. I want to be ready to go so I can whoop his butt on the course. And I respect my dad. I love my dad, but I also view him as a close friend. And our bond is one where he beats me on a hole and I go, I’m going to get you on the next one. Or you know, if he beat me in a round he would give me a hard time about it the whole next week. But it gave me motivation to beat him the next week. And so we were really close and good friends then. And then after I lost my sight, he definitely, he felt bad for me. It was tough to see his son go through what I went through, but now to be able to play in these blind golf tournaments around the world together and have him as my guide, it’s an interesting experience in the sense of, there’s nobody else in the world I’d rather have guiding me on the course than my dad. It makes the shared experience all the more meaningful and impactful sharing it with him. But it’s also interesting because what he says to me on the course, I take very differently than if you said the exact same thing to me. If I hit a shot, my dad says, that’s pretty good. I say, well, what do you mean, pretty good? Like, is it good? Is it not good? And well, it’s pretty good. Well, but if you said to me, that’s pretty good, I’d say, okay, cool, thanks. I think as golfers, we’re pretty fickle and so I tell him if it’s a good shot to say, it’s great. If it’s decent, say it’s good. And yeah, the way he says things, I take it differently than if anyone else said the exact same thing. So it’s interesting in that way, but it’s really fun to share the experience with him.

When we win a tournament, I get a trophy as the player and he gets the trophy as the guide. And he really does all the work. I mean, he tells me the hole, the what’s the par, what’s the distance. We talk through everything. He does all the work. I hit the shots. Yeah, hitting the shots is not easy, especially under tournament pressure, but he is just as involved as I am. And he’s more involved than any caddy is because he’s got to really help me and line me up on every shot, read every green, and then talk through every single shot with me and be involved in the process. So it’s just really fun to share the experience with him. I’m really grateful and lucky to do it with him. I think, on the course, that we have our moments where I’m probably not the nicest human being to him and I know that, but it’s something that I’m continuously working on and it’s something that I still take some time and reflect and pinch myself, and think how lucky am I to be able to travel the world, play these blind golf tournaments with my dad by my side. Like, that’s tough to beat. So I’m pretty darn lucky.

Brian:

Well, and I’m guessing he feels the exact same way, or maybe ten times the amount of gratitude that you feel for the experience. Do you ever blame him when you’re not playing well?

Jeremy:

Oh, 100%. Absolutely.

Brian:

I pointed too far right. It wasn’t that I…[crosstalk]

Jeremy:

I think that’s one of the perks to blind golf.

Brian:

That you pointed me wrong. [Laughter].

Jeremy:

I’ve never sliced one OB (out of bounds) in my life since I lost my sight. It’s one of the perks of blind golf, every good shot I hit, I’m the man, every botch that I hit, it’s my dad’s fault. I’ve got someone to blame it on it. He doesn’t love it, but he’s got to learn to love it because that’s how it is now.

Brian:

That’s funny. Your life is obviously different. What do you miss seeing the most and what are the greatest blessings that have come from your experience? I mean, you certainly just talked about one of them, your relationship with your father. Your mom sounds like a saint and the amount of research that she’s done for you, the advocacy on your behalf. Obviously those are blessings. Again, what do you miss seeing the most and what other blessings have come from this experience?

Jeremy:

I don’t dwell too much on what I can’t do anymore. I’ve realized that like how, where I focus my energy and my attention is kind of where I go. So early on, when I first lost my sight, all I focused my attention and energy on was the central blur that I have and the lack of sight I have. And I was in a dark place for a period of time, but now it’s like, I’m so grateful for this peripheral vision I have. I’m grateful for that. And I’m grateful for the people I have around me in my life who I haven’t referenced yet, I’m now married. I met my wife, Ellen, nine months or so after I lost my sight and we started dating and have been together ever since. So we’ve been together for 12 years now. And we got married not too long ago, three or so years ago. And then we just had a child. We have a one-year-old son. I guess when it comes to what I miss seeing, I don’t miss seeing anything, I guess. I wish I could drive. I wish autonomous vehicles were here right now. But all you sighties aren’t letting us blind folks get that out yet.

Brian:

Sighties, is that how you refer to us now? [Laughter].

Jeremy:

I don’t know, it’s tongue in cheek, for sure, but something that’s always fun to say. But I wish that autonomous vehicles were here and I could…because I do miss driving. The independence of driving is something that I miss. And then I wish I could see my son from a further distance, but I’m able to…I get so close to him and close to my wife where I can see them decently well, so it’s not something that I really dwell on or think, oh man, I really wish. At the end of the day, I really feel like I’ve had a lot more good things happen since losing my sight than bad. And I focus my energy and attention towards those. And again, I feel lucky.

Brian:

Congratulations on your son. That’s awesome. That’s very, very cool. Jeremy, I know you have a great sense of humor. We’ve experienced it already and a little bit at, at our expense, us sighties, but that’s okay. But it’s clear that you have a wonderful disposition around your blindness and as you said, it doesn’t mean that you don’t have moments but it’s admirable and it’s inspirational what you’ve done with this disability and what you’ve done with your life. And we wouldn’t have met, probably, if you hadn’t taken something that you wouldn’t wish on anyone—you certainly didn’t want for yourself—but you’ve made the most of it. But back to the sense of humor, which is, I’m guessing, part of what’s helped you through that. Probably what helps you through certain days when you need things like humor to help you through, and I’m sure people are taken aback when they encounter a blind man on the golf course. Can you share a couple of funny moments you’ve had either on the golf course or just in everyday life?

Jeremy:

Oh, sure. I think life is too short to take it way too seriously. And I’m of the mindset that, why not laugh about a lot of things. And I think when we laugh and have fun together and I crack jokes about, really anything, it allows us to kind of feel connectivity and a little bit more relaxed. I try to view it as, when I was 19 years old and fully sighted, I really hadn’t met many people who were blind or legally blind at that point. So I know that a lot of people that I’m meeting probably are similar. They don’t know a lot of blind or legally blind folks so I want them to feel as comfortable as humanly possible with me. That’s how I try to view it, but to answer your question, a lot of times I’ll meet people on the first tee and maybe I’ll be playing with my dad or a friend who’s guiding me and they’ll be playing as well. And I’ll say, hey my name is Jeremy. Just want to let you know, I’m legally blind so my dad here is going to guide me on every shot. And you can tell they’re kind of taken aback by that and they think about it. And I’ve had folks who say, you’re legally blind? Yeah. Wow, okay, and you golf? Yeah. So what’s your handicap? I go, did you not just hear? I said I’m legally blind, that is my handicap. Like how dare you! And then I start to pretend like I’m tearing up. I said, how would you…I just divulged this information, you get vulnerable, and now you ask me what my handicap is? Wow, we’re gonna have a long day! But again, totally tongue in cheek and I like to have fun with it. But that’s one that I love.

In general, the most common question I get—as a speaker I travel the globe and share my story and do keynote presentations. I love doing Q & A. A majority of the time the clients who book me will allow time for Q & A with the audience. And I love that because I love the banter. I love the ability to…with a keynote presentation, it’s a one to many conversation, whereas Q & A is more one-on-one dialogue and I love answering the questions that they have. And so one of the most common—I’d probably say the most common—question I get is have you noticed since losing your sight, that your other senses have gotten better? And I’ll always follow that up by saying, what? And they’ll repeat the question. I’m sorry, have you noticed that your other senses have gotten better? And so we’ll kind of have a fun banter back and forth and say, no, I’m totally kidding. I heard you the whole time.

But I think it’s all about having fun, and being able to make people laugh and laugh about the situation. When I first lost my sight, I had a friend who was cracking a lot of blind jokes, and I had to say to him, hey, I love you. I think you’re hilarious, but you’re like a ten out of ten on the Richter scale on blind jokes. If you could dial it down to a four, I would appreciate that. Because I wasn’t in a time and space where I could handle those. It was still raw and I was so emotional about the whole experience that I couldn’t handle those blind jokes. So I told him that. Now I can handle anything because it’s been 13 years. I love cracking jokes. I love having fun with people about it. And I think it’s good for everybody.

Brian:

I’m guessing that for your friend who is going over the top with the blind jokes, and you probably know this now, that he was struggling to figure out how to deal with it. We talked a little bit before the start of the show about the awkwardness of people around disability, because you don’t know how to react. You don’t know what to say, so that was his way of…sometimes I’ll do that. My jokes are never funny, but I’ll do that as a coping mechanism sometimes, try to tell a joke.

Jeremy:

Yeah, you don’t want to say the wrong thing. I think we kind of overthink how we want to say something—oh man, is Jeremy gonna be offended if I say blind, and not legally blind? Or is it even not legally blind? Should I just say he has a sight impairment? And at that time, it wasn’t even any of that. Like you can say those things. It was just, he literally was cracking a blind joke every five minutes. He goes, hey, look at that sign, oh, that’s right. You can’t see that. And, oh, man, I really need new glasses. Oh, you wish you could get new glasses. That was a little too much. And so I needed to be the one to say, hey, it’s too much. And because he was someone I respect and I know he loves me and I love him. I felt okay telling him that. And he received it well and understood it and dialed it down and we were fine from then on out. It’s not easy, but I’m of the mindset that people are afraid. They don’t want to say the wrong thing. With me, I try to say, there is no wrong thing and if there is, I’ll let you know, but don’t be worried about it.

Brian:

You mentioned your speaking career and that’s so impressive. And I love that you’re doing that because you have not only the opportunity to tell your story, but the opportunity to share lessons that you’ve learned so that they can—whether people have disabilities or don’t have disabilities—they can take those lessons that you’ve learned and apply them to their own life. Tell us more about your speaking career. How did it evolve? At what point did you get into it and what do you love about speaking in front of people?

Jeremy:

Well, that’s how we met—I believe a mutual connection of ours saw me speak at the EO Detroit chapter. So it’s cool because I’ve gotten to meet so many different people through speaking. How it started was I started speaking to a lot of philanthropic organizations in San Diego. I started speaking to Lions Clubs, Rotary Clubs, sororities, and fraternities and really found that to be very therapeutic. I don’t know if it added much value to the audience members, but I enjoy sharing my story and what I’d gone through and doing a little Q & A. Then I felt good about that. I was like, wow, that was nice. And then, as you mentioned in the intro, I was featured on MTV’s True Life while I was in college, an episode called True Life, I’m Losing My Sight. And when that aired and people started to reach out via email or social media and said, hey, how much does Jeremy charge to give a talk? I thought, how much do I charge? What are you talking about? That was so foreign to me. I didn’t understand that there was even an industry. Besides Tony Robbins, I knew nobody who gave talks and maybe made a living from it. So while I was in college, I was doing research on the industry and thought, okay, wow, this is something that I can pursue and my visual impairment is not going to hinder me in pursuing this industry. This is something that I can do as a legally blind individual. Okay, maybe I’m not going to be a pilot—and that’s good for everybody. Not going to be a bus driver, not being a pilot, probably not going to be a chef at a Michelin star restaurant—well, no, you could do that, actually. There is a totally blind woman who won top chef one year. And I was like, this is something that I can absolutely do. And then I gave a TEDx talk at San Diego State while I was still in school. Then started speaking to a lot of high schools and middle schools in the beginning.

When I did the first TEDx talk, that was the first time that I took the time to think okay, how can I make my story relevant to the audience? And what’s the takeaway I can leave with them? What’s something that I can share with them, that’s gonna impact their life? So it got me thinking less about me and more about them. I started to speak to middle schools and high schools. I started to speak a lot to colleges and universities because I had that proximity in age in my early twenties. And then now I’ve transitioned to speaking to a lot of corporations, associations, speak at different conferences and conventions. And I really enjoy it. I get to meet really cool people and I hope to impact as many lives as possible. If I can get people to think differently…all I can do is plant seeds. If I plant the right seeds and the audience members who hear that, water it and leave remembering something that I said, and it impacts their lives in some way personally or professionally, I’m making a difference in a way that I probably wouldn’t have had I not lost my sight. So it’s something that gives me a lot of meaning and purpose in my life and makes me feel really good.

Brian:

Well, and I have no doubt that you are adding value and making a difference for people. And again, you have a great story, you have a memorable story. And so if you add to that nuggets of wisdom, you’re certainly adding value and making a difference. Jeremy, we all have adversity in our lives. We have peaks and valleys, highs and lows. Not all of us, obviously, have the level of depth—maybe not the highs of a world championship or the lows of a life altering disability. But we all have peaks and valleys. What message do you have for our listeners and viewers on how to overcome challenges we face and just really make the most of life?

Jeremy:

So I think the key message that I try to get across in my speaking to the audiences I speak to is something that we’ve touched on. And we haven’t said the word yet, but something we’ve touched on throughout this interview is the relationship I have with my dad on the golf course, where you said, he’s probably feeling the same way I do about sharing that experience together and how my friends probably feel that way. My siblings are gaining something from this, and my wife and I have a relationship that is different than had I remained sighted. It’s something that provides her with meaning and myself with more purpose. To me, I think we have it wrong in society to place so much emphasis on independence. I think independence is good, but I think interdependence is great. And with interdependence, we need to SEE interdependence. And for me, SEE—one, it’s a good sight pun, but two, it’s a good acronym. And so to SEE interdependence, we need to S—we need to seek help, and E—we need to embrace help. And then finally we need to extend out. So if we can seek help and be comfortable in asking others for help, that’s going to go a long way in helping us get through those valleys. Embrace help, also not easy to receive help. When someone offers to help us we want to turn them down more times than not because we don’t want to be viewed as someone who’s dependent. And then finally extend help—offer to help those around you. My dad is extending so much help to me on and off the golf course. And with interdependence, it provides us with a lot more purpose in our lives and connection and shared experiences. When I was fully sighted, I wanted to be as independent as humanly possible and never wanted to ask for help. And now being legally blind, I ask for help all the time, but that’s not a sign of weakness, it’s a sign of strength. I’m happy that I have my dad guiding me on the golf course and we share that experience together. I don’t mind that my wife does all the driving, when she’s driving, we have that shared experience and have quality conversations and experiences that we enjoy together. And so I think that’s something that we should all work on, is to see the power of interdependence in our lives to be okay asking others for help, to be okay receiving help from others, and to extend help to others.

Brian:

How do you help people to understand that they need to ask for help? So if you, a totally blind person has to rely on somebody to navigate around, or there are other examples, other disabilities where people physically…somebody, say a paraplegic, can’t physically do certain things and absolutely has to have help. If your arms are paralyzed and your legs are paralyzed, then you can’t brush your teeth or you can’t wash yourself. You need help with that. But what about people who…I think we live in a world where we don’t tend to ask for help, we want to do everything ourselves. We think we can do everything ourselves. We think we need to do everything ourselves. How do you help people move along that spectrum a little bit and realize the importance of interdependence?

Jeremy:

It’s breaking down that wall of thinking that we need to be gung ho independent, to be successful, to be viewed as—insert whatever you want to be viewed as. Independent thinkers think I don’t need anyone’s help, I’ve got this. Whereas interdependent thinkers know that it’s not a matter of need, but an opportunity to work alongside others to work smarter and more efficiently. I could try to do certain…like you could drop me off at the airport. I can go try to find my gate on my own, but I go to the check-in counter. I tell them I’m visually impaired and could somebody assist me to the gate. Someone comes and walks me directly to the gate and it’s, to me, that’s interdependence. I could try to do it on my own. It might take me 15, 20 minutes, but with their help, I did it in five. I think when we refrain from asking others from help, as leaders, as individuals, we’re limiting our ability to be successful. We’re limiting our ability to connect with others. And quite frankly, I think we’re limiting our ability to be relatable. When we’re so gung ho independent we’re a little bit more closed off, we’re not open to other people coming in and being a part of our lives in some capacity. You’re limiting your ability to be relatable and to connect. And this is what I would say—when somebody asks for your help, if someone that comes to you and says, Brian, hey, can you help me with this? How does that make you feel?

Brian:

It makes me feel needed. Makes me feel valued. It makes me feel like that person thinks that I have something to offer.

Jeremy:

One hundred percent, extremely well said.

Brian:

Assistance can be provided.

Jeremy:

One hundred percent, extremely well said. Now, how do you feel when you feel like, oh man, I need to ask for somebody’s help. How does that make you feel?

Brian:

Well, I’m getting a lot better about it because I recognize for me, one of the things that’s caused me to ask for help more is capacity restraints. And the other thing is realizing the value of collaboration, the value of team versus there is no “I” in team, right? John Maxwell says, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go with others. I talk about the power of one plus one is the power of 11. So that collaboration really becomes exponential in terms of the results that can get created. And sometimes it’s just the patio furniture that needs to be moved. I mean, maybe I could do it myself, but it takes about two minutes having the assistance of one other person versus doing it myself and probably breaking it or it maybe breaking me. So I’ve gotten better about it, but it’s not easy.

Jeremy:

So I think that the way to put that is, or what I was trying to get at too, is you put yourself in the other person’s shoes. Like I, when I’m thinking about myself, I’m like, oh man, I don’t want to ask for help because I don’t want to be vulnerable. I don’t want them to view me as dependent. I don’t want them to think I’m not able to do this on my own. But when you flip it around, it’s like, when people ask me for my help, like you just said, you feel needed, you feel wanted, you feel like you can add value. So it’s just, to me, it’s so interesting how paradoxical it is, where when we want to ask someone for help, we’re fearful. But when someone asks for our help, we feel good, we feel special. So we rob others from feeling those feelings by not asking for their help.

Brian:

That’s well put. I want to talk a little bit about the—and we’re coming to the end of the show—but you’ve raised a tremendous amount of money for LHON. And you’ve also raised awareness. Can you talk about that, your CURE Ride, and other ways that you’ve raised awareness and money for LHON?

Jeremy:

The CURE Ride was founded by my roommate at the time I lost my sight, Mark. He and I created it. Lost my sight in that fall-winter period. And then we did our first ride the summer of the next year. So in less than a year, we did our first CURE Ride. Mark and I did a lot of the planning and got others involved in the planning. And again, that’s interdependence and collaboration. He and I ride on a tandem bike together. So we’re together on a tandem bike and it’s a shared experience together on that tandem. But we do the CURE Ride with a group of friends every year. We haven’t done it the last two years due to COVID, but it’s something that gives me a lot of meaning and purpose. And it’s something that I want to raise funds for so others don’t have to go through what I went through. And I want to continue doing the ride with these friends because it’s making an impact and a difference, but selfishly it’s really fun. It’s fun to get quality time with such great human beings. It’s something that I look forward to doing.

Brian:

Oh, that’s awesome that you’re doing that. And that’s an event that takes place in San Diego?

Jeremy:

No, we do it from Santa Barbara to San Diego. It’s a 240 mile bike ride. We do it in four days.

Brian:

Wow. Oh, that’s awesome. What are you most excited about for 2022? And how can our listeners and viewers learn more about you?

Jeremy:

I’m most excited to see my son continue to grow. I’m cherishing every minute, every moment with him. That’s what I’m most excited about before anything else. I’m also excited about my speaking ramping up for in-person engagements. Obviously in 2020, there was a lot of virtual talks and talking to this black box on my laptop where a lot of people are muted on zoom while I’m speaking and I can’t see anybody’s faces. So it’s a double whammy there for a blind speaker. But I’ve gotten to do more in-person engagements in 2021 and look forward to doing many more in 2022. People can find me through my website, JeremyPioncenot.com. They can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram. That’s where I’m most active, is on those platforms. And then I send out an email newsletter every two weeks. It’s called Poince of Perspective, P-O-I-N-C-E, the first six letters of my last name. I send out a Poince of Perspective email every two weeks. And if people want to opt into that or join that email list, they can text the word SEE, pun intended, to 55444. So you text SEE to 55444 you’ll be able to join my email list and receive those emails. We can be in touch in any of those ways.

Brian:

Jeremy, thanks so much for being on the show today. You are a true inspiration, my friend, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to have met you here. And hopefully I’ll have a chance to do that in person someday. And to hear your story, I really, really appreciate your sharing it today.

Jeremy:

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Brian:

Thanks for tuning into Life Excellence. Please support the show by subscribing, telling your friends about the show, posting about it on social media and leaving a rating and review. You can also learn more about me at BrianBartes.com. Until next time, dream big dreams and make each day your masterpiece.