Show Notes

• State & national champion racewalker
• Start in real estate
• How to thrive in the high end New York real estate market
• The challenges of growing a team
• A day in the life of Kirsten Jordan
• Bravo’s Million Dollar Listing New York
• The importance of pre-framing
• The demands of being a mom and a real estate agent

Connect With Kirsten Jordan

Website – https://kirstenjordan.com/
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/kirstenjordanfarsura
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/kirsten.jordan/
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsten-jordan/

Summary

As a real estate broker in Manhattan, Kirsten Jordan has personally brokered an astonishing half a billion dollars in sales! In 2020, she became the first female cast member of Bravo’s Emmy-nominated Million Dollar Listing New York. Kirsten discusses what it’s like to succeed in a vigorously competitive market, and still be the awesome mom of three kids.

Full Transcript

Brian:

Welcome to another episode of Life Excellence with Brian Bartes. Join me as I talk with amazing athletes, entrepreneurs, authors, entertainers, and others who have achieved excellence in their chosen field so you can learn their tools, techniques, and strategies for improving performance and achieving greater success.As a real estate broker in Manhattan, Kirsten Jordan has personally brokered an astonishing half a billion dollars—that’s billion with a B—in sales. Kirsten’s clients are Fortune 500 executives, Oscar winning actors and mega social media influencers with millions of followers. As a passionate real estate investor, and someone who sold out three new developments in New York for a total of $100 million in new development sales, Kirsten understands firsthand what it means to evaluate a property from all angles and then sell it. In 2020 Kirsten became the first female cast member of Bravo’s Emmy nominated Million Dollar Listing New York. And she appeared in every episode of season nine. Kirsten has also been featured on CNBC and in several publications, including Variety, Bloomberg and The New York Post. Kirsten is a bold negotiator, a passionate professional, and an experienced advisor. Oh, and she’s also the mom of three kids. Welcome Kirsten, and thanks so much for joining me on Life Excellence.

Kirsten:

Thanks so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here.

Brian:

Kristen, you grew up in Rye, New York, a town about 30 minutes from the city and attended college in Wisconsin. What took you back to New York? And how did you get started in the real estate business?

Kirsten:

I decided to move back to New York when I was living in Europe. I actually moved to Milan after I lived in Chicago, my first year out of college. I went to University of Wisconsin, Madison, and everybody—after they go to Madison—they pretty much all go to Chicago. So I followed everybody to Chicago. It wasn’t for me. I moved to Italy. I lived in Italy for two years. While I was there I not only had a bunch of different odd jobs, but I also started a sales job where I was selling licensing agreements for greeting card and wrapping paper imagery. So I was selling pictures of Santa Claus, pictures of bunny rabbits. And it was like the dredges of sales in the sense that it was very glamorous because I was speaking Italian and I was translating and I was traveling around Europe, mostly like Germany and Eastern Europe, but I made no money because you don’t make money in Europe, especially when you’re young and you’re a woman. So at one point I decided it was the time to come back to the US where women make money. So I started in real estate because I figured I’m good at sales, I now speak fluent Italian. I’m sure I’m going to have all these rich Italian clients that are going to want to buy massive homes from me. And so I’ll use my Italian and it will make me super successful. And that’s why I got into real estate.

Brian:

Well, you’ve obviously succeeded in a very difficult field and in a very competitive market in New York. Kirsten, you are quoted as saying “Real estate is a competitive sport. If you think of your job as a sport and you train for it like a sport, you’re going to kill it. You’re going to win”. I know you’re used to competition because you were a highly successful athlete in high school. Tell us about that experience and also other ways that you were competitive growing up.

Kirsten:

Well, I’m the oldest of five children. So what is interesting about being in a big family is that you are, I think, more self-focused and you need maybe a little bit less external validation. So for me, I was already interested in doing something that was something I really wanted to do, and a place where I could actually excel. And I wasn’t really very sporty at the beginning, when I was younger like in middle school, I don’t think I really had much athletic ability. I was still doing the random sports here and there. But when I realized I was good at the race walk, which was in ninth grade, honestly, it was like a breakthrough for me. It was something where I started and I had some beginner’s luck of success because the fact that clearly my body and the way that I was just lucky—I was good at it. I had good form. It was really easy for me. And I was immediately able to do reasonably well in a short period of time. Then I think that the beginner’s luck of that is what helped me get the itch to then really, really push myself to become the top of my game in the race walk which is, again, a random sport. It wasn’t the kind of sport where you were competing against the milers, or the 3000, or the regular events. So I would say it was more niche. It was still highly competitive, but what was neat about it was—I can liken this to a lot of different kind of sales where if you can get in, in the beginning and you can have a moment where you do well in your first short time period, it’s like that first high that you’re kind of going to search for the rest of your career. And it’s a good thing. So for me with the race walk, I came out in my first heat and I won my heat because I was in the second heat instead of being the first seat—which for those of you who didn’t do track and field, they break you up into the people who are like not expected to do that well so you don’t interfere with the people who are the real winners. Winning that first, that heat, for me was like a really, really great moment. And I realized that I probably was going to be good at this. So what happened was I ended up becoming the national champion and the state champion. The state championships were actually the day before the national championships in high school because of the way that the calendar fell. That was really exciting. What I took away from it, not only from this beginner’s luck perspective, but also from this idea of being a great athlete doesn’t mean that it’s easier for you to do what other people do. I think you have a certain skill set that gets you maybe ahead of everybody, maybe from a genetic perspective or from a right out of the gate perspective, but to actually win, you still have to expand your pain tolerance and your pain threshold, and you still have to train and you still have to go into every race and give it your all in order to win. And that’s the same with real estate. I think everybody thinks that being real estate agent and being really at the top of your game means that you walk into every pitch and all of the sellers and buyers just fawn all over you and want you to work with them. That happens in some cases, but the rest of the time, you still have to pitch. You still have to like roll out the red carpet. You still have to tell them why you’re the best. You still have to work for it. You still can get the job and if you don’t sell it, you get fired. It’s not the kind of thing where you reach an echelon where all of a sudden it’s all easy. And I think that that’s what was important about being successful in high school was saying, Hey, if I train really hard, I can be anything and be anybody and make it an and do really well. And I have that capacity. And then there’s of course, some emotional, spiritual part of this, where I also have the drive to win and to actually make that happen. But then there’s this other side of saying, everybody looks at the winners and say, oh, well, you’re going to win because it’s super easy for you. But the truth is, it’s actually still hard at the top and acknowledging that and knowing that every step of the way there’s going to be hardness, and it’s going to be hard for you, I think is super important. And I think that’s helped me a lot with my career.

Brian:

Tell us more about your family. You said you’re the oldest of five children. So there was obviously some competition going on within your family. How did that play out and how did growing up with four siblings help you to be successful in real estate and to be successful in life today?

Kirsten:

I grew up in Minnesota until I was 10 and my parents got divorced. My mom moved us to Westchester because she met somebody, who is now my stepfather—they’ve been together for almost 30 years and incredible guy. I’m super fortunate to have a really, really incredible family. There’s a lot of us—it was a mixed family and I would say that what was really helpful about being oldest is that, being the oldest, you are kind of the one that is shot out into space, you kind of pave the way for your siblings. And I definitely did that, I would say, to the point where even my youngest sister, who’s 12 years younger than me, announced [that she is now] in real estate in Charleston, South Carolina. And so the great thing is that’s exciting for me. I’m sure that if she hadn’t seen me do what I do and feel like she had someone to lean on, I don’t know if she would have necessarily picked that as a career. She was a creative writing major in college, so it’s not the logical fit for sales. I have a great relationship with every single one of my siblings and yeah, it was competitive growing up, but I think actually it’s more that there was chaos. And I think that the chaos is important for the growth. I think the chaos is important for independence. I think as a New York parent, it’s very easy to try to want to be like very “helicoptery” and very controlled but there’s also this idea of embracing free time, white space, not being super organized and planned all the time. And knowing that creativity also just comes from play, being together, enjoying each other’s company, and keeping it lighthearted and finding a sense of humor in everything. When my parents were getting divorced and we were moving across the country, it was clearly like a really difficult time for my mom, but I never felt that it was difficult. She was always pretending like it was super exciting and that it was going to be great and that it was totally normal. And that this was going to be really fun and keeping a sense of humor about it and just being with us as kids. I still have an incredible relationship with my dad, and my dad actually has a place near us now on the Upper West Side. And so where we didn’t see him as much when I was growing up because of the fact that we moved across the country, he is super present with his grandchildren right now, which is really, really special.

Brian:

That is awesome. It’s great to hear you talk about your family and obviously you’ve modeled success for your siblings and it has to be kind of cool for you to see now your youngest sister going into the business. And I’m sure you have mixed emotions about that, but that’s awesome. And she’ll have lots to learn from you too. Let’s talk more about real estate success, Kirsten. I don’t know how accurate this is, but I read that there are approximately 30,000 licensed real estate agents in Manhattan alone, and over 50,000 agents in the wider New York metropolitan area. Given the congestion and the cutthroat competition in your business, what does it take to not only succeed in Manhattan real estate, but to be the best? What are you doing that other successful brokers aren’t doing? And on the other side, what are some of the things that you feel you need to maybe start doing or do more of to play an even bigger game?

Kirsten:

One of the things that I focused on or learned too late in my career was the fact that stepping back and taking a critical look at the work that I was doing and looking at it instead of the day to day and really being stuck in the weeds. I started as the assistant to a real estate agent who is a top producing agent, who I’m still very close with today. I was really doing the behind the scenes work, which is very easy to get into the weeds because you just end up having so much on your plate that it’s very difficult to see the forest from the trees. And so I realized now that…I went from that position to then working on a team, another team that’s a top producing team, and then decided to start my own team. And what’s really, really come to the forefront with dealing with higher end clients—which is essentially how you get out of the low end, dog eat dog…or you could say catch 22 nature of the market, where you’re just really hustling. You can’t get ahead. It’s busy when it’s busy, and then it’s slow when it’s slow and you don’t know what to do. And then all of a sudden it’s too busy again and you can’t justify leveraging by getting an assistant because you’re not really there yet—is to start thinking bigger, big picture, thinking about what it’s going to take to talk to your clients in a bigger picture way so that they think of you for their clients who have maybe more expensive assets than them. A lot of that is super important even when you’re dealing with smaller listings. And what I really focus on encouraging my agents, my team, to do is don’t just send people comps about that listing when you’re pitching or don’t just send people what the numbers are, but talk to them about what’s going on at the macro level, where you are. Talk to them about what’s going on in the overall market. That’s a bigger conversation. So it’s not just about the price and it’s not just about that little transaction. It’s about where that transaction and where those numbers fit into the larger market. And agents ask me all the time—I’m actually a capstone agent for Ryan Serhant’s mentorship program, for his Sell It Like Serhant program. He has a platinum membership or whatever. And there’s a couple other situations where I’m mentors for agents. And they’re always asking me how to get into higher end sales. And one of the keys of getting into higher end sales is being able to talk to wealthy people. And the way you talk to wealthy people is not about that micro sliver. Those are people who—the reason they’re successful is because they are big picture thinkers, they see larger macro trends, they’re looking at things from a different perspective. And even if they’re not in finance and they don’t read those kinds of publications, you have to figure out a way to connect with them about the world. And that’s something that I wish I had done earlier. And so whenever I craft anything to any seller, I always make sure that I discuss that level of the market. Where I’d love to improve more is an area that I think all agents are trying to struggle to figure out what to do, which is this making sure that I have as many as possible streams of lead generation. You do have, of course, an amount of business that comes from your sphere of influence from past clients but then the question becomes that is actually not sellable from the perspective of saying, Hey, what’s my team really worth if I’m not here anymore? So figuring out other ways to find streams of leads is something that we’re always focusing on. I have my own team website. That’s something that we’re always focusing on figuring out how to get leads through  but then it’s just…even a further public presence for me so that people come to us also because of that, or even just overall success and making sure that that success is known in the marketplace so that people come to us because they’ve seen our successes. If a tree falls in the forest…you do an amazing sale but nobody knows about it, then how are you supposed to get more business from that? So it’s making sure that you’re singing your success from the rooftops, which is something we’re focusing on right now.

Brian:

You talked about emerging from the crowd and getting into the higher end real estate market rather than being in the masses of say the 80/20 rule. So getting to that top 20%, or you would probably say the top 1%, but you’re not immune from competition in that area either. So how do you set yourself apart from other brokers who are playing in that high-end space? Why do clients hire you rather than [inaudible].

Kirsten:

What’s my unique value proposition? Well, what’s really special about my team is…there’s the obvious fact that I do have a public presence that other people don’t have access to because of Million Dollar Listing New York. Being the first woman has been really, really big, an interesting part of building a brand,  for better or for worse. It’s something that is just another arrow in the quiver. It’s not something that is an entire brand. It’s something that’s just a piece of putting myself out there more and making sure that I’m more visible. But the other part that I use to be able to leverage my brand is the fact that I have been doing this for a long time for somebody my age, people really don’t usually get into real estate as a first career. I essentially have been in real estate since I was 25, doing residential resales and then also doing new development sales. And so I’ve seen a lot for still having the energy of just being under 40 and being ready to go and being ready to really, really go after figuring out how to leave no stone unturned. The other thing that’s different about my team is that we do really collaborate as a team. It’s not just everybody eats what they kill. I made sure that I have a really top agent on every single project that I’m working on. So I have a new development arm where I have a COO who has 15 years of new development experience. She’s worked for several developers. She is on every single new development project that I have, where there’s a sponsor, where there’s somebody who is a builder and a high level investor. Again, she’s a person who can not only talk granular about what’s going on with the transaction, but she can speak incredibly high level to those clients about what we’re seeing in the larger market, what we’re seeing across our portfolio. Then, all the agents that I have that work on my resell business, and then also cross over to our new development business, are people who have all the attributes that I think are important to an agent. Maybe they haven’t been in the business as long as I’ve been, but they’re polished, they’re put together, they’re knowledgeable about the market. I talk to each of them at least twice a day, to know what they’re working on, make sure that they’re doing their follow-up. They are also being coached the way I am being coached. So none of them are really left out there to  dangle. We make sure that everybody’s accountable for their goals. I know how much follow-up people are doing. We’re really, really on top of things. And then also we’ve built out an infrastructure that is at a point where it can still sustain more growth without having to add more pieces to it. Most agents, what they do is they do sales first. They profit first, which is incredible. And granted, I worked on a profit first model for the first 12 years of my business. It didn’t work for me. What I realized was you still have to build it and they will come because at some point with the fact that we’re all competing against the big teams now, with the way that my business is structured, if I don’t build out so that we can service things the way the other big teams are servicing them, I can’t go after those big opportunities because I don’t have the back-end to support it. I’m going to be staying up until two o’clock in the morning, trying to put together systems to service it when the outlay isn’t that much more to just build the systems now. Because I know the business is coming, because I’ve been doing this long enough. So that would probably be like the larger picture of what our unique value proposition is. We also have an incredible omni-channel of having incredible press presence along with a digital marketing agency that I use for all of my projects. So we just have a really, really deep bench of ways that we’re able to service the client and make sure that they get the ultimate visibility for their listing. And then of course, customer service on the buy side.

Brian:

That’s awesome. I just have to say before we continue, if you’re listening to, or watching this podcast go back and listen to that last answer, because Kirsten laid out a success manual that can be applied, not just in real estate, but in any area of life. That was awesome. And I really appreciate you sharing that. What do you love about real estate, Kirsten? You’re not only listing and selling real estate, but you’re also active as both an investor and a developer. What is it about real estate that causes you to get up early and want to just jump into your day and go out and sell real estate?

Kirsten:

Well, what I love about real estate is that it is different every day, which is a cliche because that’s what everybody says about real estate. Oh, it’s different every day, no two situations are the same. And usually they’re saying that because of the fact that it’s actually totally incredibly frightening sometimes because no two situations are the same, and you don’t know what you’re walking into until you’re at the closing table. But the thing that really, really gets me excited at this point is having a team and being a mentor and watching my team members grow. The team member that started on my team at the beginning of 2021. She started with me in March. She has gone from doing, I think she did barely one transaction with her previous team, which she had been on for almost a year. And with me in the last year, I think she’s done 12 transactions. And so, not only is that incredible for a new agent, but I saw talent in her, it’s taken a tremendous amount of mentorship to get her where she is, however, now this is somebody who is really able to take a certain price point from start to finish almost without my involvement. And she knows when to pull me in. And so this is something that’s incredibly gratifying. My team is in just such a great place right now that I would say that’s probably what is the most exciting, because I went from a world of having no one to leverage and having really no one to lean on when it came to getting my business to the next level. And now in less than a year, I have a framework that I can use to be able to get us to the next level. There is no opportunity that I would need to say no to. Whereas before, you manifest opportunities, they come, and you don’t have the infrastructure. And so you have this world of stammering to figure out how you’re going to then staff it and how you’re going to pull people together. So for me, it’s this really exciting stage of saying, I can focus on growing the team, making sure that I’m part of every deal, but that I have somebody on my team who is part of every deal. I don’t do anything alone anymore, which I think is really awesome. And I think that’s exciting for my team and one of the reasons that I have the team members that I have, and then also this idea of being able to continue to work on a world of thought leadership for me, which I am really excited about with real estate. I have a book proposal that I’m finalizing and trying to pitch to publishers, which I’m excited about. I’m going to be doing more public speaking about what it’s like being me and what I think it’s taken to get where I am today with stories about my life. And that’s something that I’ve always secretly deep down wanted to basically, only do. And so I get to do do both. I get to be a real estate agent, but also get to focus on this incredible part of the business, which is motivating people because that’s what sales is about. Keeping people motivated so that they wake up the next day and actually go sell stuff.

Brian:

I love your success. But what I love probably even more is that you’re now growing leaders and you’re helping other people to be successful. There’s great satisfaction in personal success, but what I find is that adding value to others and helping others to be successful is even more gratifying. How has that stretched you? Because that’s a different skill set—selling versus leading others, managing others, motivating and inspiring others, holding each other accountable. How has that stretched you? And how has that grown you into the person that you’ve become through that process?

Kirsten:

What’s crazy about getting into the leadership of growing the team is that I definitely had a lot of resistance to spending a ton of time deal by deal on the agents on how to guide them through each deal. And because of the fact that the business generation is pretty much a hundred percent me right now, in the beginning, it was difficult to say, okay, I have to focus on business development, but then I also have to focus on helping these agents get through their deals. So what happened for me that was a really, really big shift, was realizing that for me to be able to get into a position where I’m basically not in full production all day long…this is just a term that they use across real estate coaching. It’s where the idea is you’re either in production and you’re really an agent and you’re really working with people all day every day, or you’re only on the business development side and you have the agents really doing the day to day of the selling of real estate. And I think in New York City, it’s very difficult to pull yourself out of production because of the fact that at the high end, those clients are actually really looking to somebody who can really, really meet them at their level. But what’s pushed me the most was to find my why so that I could really lean into being a real leader and a real presence to my team. And what I realized was what’s exciting to me for my team is growing something that has a value that’s outside of just me and what my personal sphere of influence can do. It was something that was kind of a light bulb moment that I had during the Tom Ferry coaching seminar that I went to, that was a teams coaching seminar.

The main idea is that these are people who have grown ulterior businesses so that they are essentially running the businesses instead of being stuck in the day to day brokerage, which again, I’ve been doing the day-to-day brokerage for 12 years. But for me now, my why is saying, okay, I really want to get to the point where I do only deals that are above a certain threshold and that the rest of it, I want to make sure that they are 100% being done by my team so that I can have really quality team members so that I can continue to have a solid brand. It doesn’t mean I have to have a hundred agents, but it means that this energy that I’m putting into these agents is going to give me the breathing room to be able to continue to do my highest and best use, which is working at the highest level possible with clients. And also being able to work on my mentorship projects and that kind of thing. But that was what I needed to push, in the beginning I really had a ton of resistance around dragging the deals across the finish line while I was showing the agents how to do it. But now we’re in a different place with that, because I’ve said, listen, this is my job. This is what I’m giving to…this is why these people are on my team. They’re paying me 

or I’m paying them, however it works, we’re splitting up these commissions because the fact that I offer this service of being able to help guide them through their deals so that they’re able to be as independent as humanly possible and work on the deal flow that I provide from bringing in the business.

Brian:

That’s a huge leap and I applaud you for making that. I know in the beginning of that, especially, it’s very difficult because we—and some of it is the stories that we tell ourselves that I’m the only person that can do this. I need to represent our brand, whatever, fill in the blank on the stories that we make up. And some of them are partially true. And some of them are complete sort of—in my case, ego-driven fabrications that we tell ourselves. But the reality is one part of it is that there’s a capacity issue, right? And you certainly recognize that not only is there a professional capacity issue, but when you’re talking about the life that you really want to create for yourself, the quality of life with your husband, the quality of life with your children, you do bump into capacity issues, as you know, pretty quickly. So it’s difficult to  invest time pouring into other people when in the short run, that’s taking time away from your own production, but it’s obvious that you’ve already started to see the benefit from that. And what happens is maybe you are sacrificing quality, a little bit, in the short run. You definitely are, but then you hit this point where everything sort of explodes and if you can replicate yourself or come anywhere near that, and just start cloning agent after agent, broker after broker, then that’s a totally different business than the one that you can create no matter how good you are on your own.

Kirsten:

And there’s still no replacement for me showing up to in-person meetings with clients. I mean, I think that’s never going to change, or that’s not changing anytime soon. It’s more this idea of saying…setting expectations of clients that, listen, this is me, I’m here to service you. This is the agent that’s running point on your business, and I’ve been here, I’ve seen it, and we’re going to make sure that this is done 150% to your satisfaction. And this is what this looks like, and these are the systems we have in place. This is how we do things, and this is why we are successful. And I think that’s something that is super, super important to lead with. I think a lot of agents, instead, are super apologetic about their systems that they have in place. As soon as somebody has an objection to the way that they want to run their business, they recoil and they give them lip service about saying, oh, sure, of course, they have a difficulty saying, hey, this is how we do our business and we’re really excited to do that because this is how we’ve had success. And so that’s something that I’m focusing on now as well, myself. It’s really, really important to say, I’m going to be here. I’m available, but I can’t be at every showing. It’s just never going to happen. It’s not possible—your home won’t get shown. And so it’s very, very important that you have a great relationship with this agent that’s on my team, who I trust, and these are the transactions we’ve done together, and they’ve done an incredible job. I’m only a phone call away, and we’re going to be checking in frequently to make sure that you’re happy.

Brian:

How is that playing out for you practically? I’m interested in that, given the type of clientele that you deal with. I think it’s a boundary issue, first of all, dictating the terms or explaining the terms of engagement. And my suspicion is that most people are understanding of everything you just described and probably some clients aren’t as understanding, how do you navigate through that?

Kirsten:

I do right now is I’m really making sure that I’m really actively involved in every transaction. It doesn’t mean that I’m physically there but I am really actively involved. And the way that that is playing out is making sure that we’re having success. And so I make sure that there is success. Like there is no way that we will not have success. And the clients are happy. Everybody’s been happy, and it does come from managing expectations. And sometimes I do have to jump in and sometimes I do have to show up and— that’s something that I’m really focusing on from a communication perspective with my team members to make sure we have check-ins about what’s going on with each client so that we can service them really, really well. My COO, for example, who also runs our new development arm, I’ll get a message from her that’s like, hey, this developer’s grumpy and needs an extra phone call, or let’s troubleshoot this situation—somebody said something during a meeting, you were on another showing or meeting with another client, let’s jump on an extra call with this developer to make sure we talk through this. And honestly, the key really is communication. It’s the same way that it’s the quality time that you have with your kids is more important than the quantity time you have with your children. In a general way it’s like the quality of interaction that the clients have with you at the times that they need it is more important than the quantity of interaction or the quantity of actual time that you’re with the product.

Brian:

That’s well said. I get the sense that you’re very organized and regimented, and I read that people are amazed by how efficiently you manage your schedule. Can you share more about that and walk us through a typical day in the life of Kirsten Jordan, even though no day is the same, I know.

Kirsten:

No day is the same, which is what’s so exciting about real estate, is that it’s never the same. You can walk into it. It’s something totally crazy. It’s the cliche of real estate. It’s never the same. Oh my God. So I do wake up early. I wake up early every morning. Some mornings, like today, I’ve had a week where I’ve had to be out entertaining every night this week, which happens during the holidays. And sometimes what I’ve recognized is sometimes it is more important to get a little bit of extra sleep, than it is to wake up and do your routine. Because if you keep stretching it too many days in a row that can get really…you can become really cranky—I’m not moody, but I like to feel a hundred percent, let’s just say that. I don’t do well unless I feel like between 90 and 120%, like I dropped below 90% and I call myself the Princess and the Pea, like I got the wrong thing in my tea that morning or whatever it is. Like, I know I can tell, I can feel if they put something funky in my in my soup last night. I’m dairy-free, gluten-free, all that crazy stuff. So I wake up early, I usually get up between 5:15 and 5:30, I drag myself out of bed. If I’m going to be going for a run, I actually put on my running clothes, which were laying next to my bed. And I sit in my living room and I meditate for 15 to 20 minutes. What I do when I meditate, it depends. Sometimes I just use it as white space where I just deep breathing, reflection, gratitude. And then I visualize some success moments that I could see of what success looks like in specific situations. So let’s say I pick a specific outcome that I’m hoping will happen and what that would look like if that happened. There’s always a different way that I structure it. Sometimes I listen to some music that’s meditative, or I have a Tony Robins priming that I do, which is like another meditation kind of concept. So then once I’m done with that, I either go out for my run or I work out at home. If I’ve woken up a little bit later, what I’ll do is either way after that kind of process, I have like a whole regimen of what I consume in the morning. So I have like chia seeds and water, lemon juice. I take supplements that you can only take on an empty stomach. And then I take some Chinese herbs, usually some sort of herbal blend like something that my acupuncturist has given me. Then after about 20 minutes, I caffeinate. I’m really into black tea with oat milk. For awhile it was almond milk. Now I’m into oat milk. I also put supplements in that that are like a sweetener. Then basically, I’m with my kids, helping them with breakfast and getting them ready. I take my daughter to the bus stop. She goes to the bus at about 7:30 and then my other kids usually leave around that time. My son leaves around eight. So between then if I haven’t gotten in that extra bit of my workout, I usually finish that up by 8:00 AM and then I’m getting ready. I’m usually out of the door by 8:30-9:00. So I’m not necessarily out the door super early, but I like really enjoy my family and self time in the morning. Because I feel like then the rest of the day, it’s okay if I don’t get home till seven. If the day gets crazy, I spent that time with myself and then I feel like I’m able to give to everybody for the rest of the day. The other thing that I make sure that I do is I really focus on making sure that there’s outreach during every day. So from that 9:00 AM, making sure I’m out of the house by then, if I’m in an Uber, I take phone calls from an Uber. If I walk through the park because it’s good weather, I walk through the park and take phone calls. I basically just use it as a time to just pummel on follow-up, outreach, checking in with people. That’s one of the fundamentals of our business, no matter what you need to be outbound, even if the follow-up feels trite or it feels like it’s something that doesn’t need to be said, over communication is perfect communication these days, because everybody’s so scattered, everybody’s all over the place, everybody’s on their phones. So that’s one of the main things that I do. And then the other thing I do, once I’ve gotten to the office, because I do like to go to the office, is I do check in with team members. I see what people are up to. Sometimes that’s part of my followup as well, calling team members, seeing what’s going on with certain deals, making sure that they feel supported. I check in with my COO, she and I decompress on a bunch of different things. I check in with the operations manager. It’s a lot of check-ins, who’s doing what, how’s everything going, a lot of client check-ins. Then usually there’s something, there’s something that’s press related. I usually try to get that over with one day every two weeks. So that’s when we set aside for podcasts, we set aside for press interviews, that kind of a thing. And by noon, sometimes I have either a lunch and if I don’t have a lunch, then it usually just involves making sure that I have appointments scheduled. So a lot of people go out to see apartments during lunchtime. So some of my pitches are during lunchtime. That’s usually kind of what happens with lunch. It’s either I eat lunch with somebody or I’m doing comps at my desk while I’m having lunch or I’m out doing some sort of a pitch or showing people homes. Then the latter part of the day usually does end up with appointments. A lot of it’s going to see product. I also try to see all new development product that comes to the market because what’s special about new development product in Manhattan is that sometimes it can take a long time to sell, but once you’ve seen it, at least you’ve seen it for clients. So they ask you about that product, then you’ve already seen it. And so getting out and seeing it right in the beginning is just very, very efficient for me. It’s shifting during the day, those meetings with developers, sometimes it’s meeting with Douglas Elliman people, following up on referrals that have gone out. And then when I’m filming for Million Dollar Listing a couple of days a week, there’s like a three hour block where I’m filming for Million Dollar Listing. And then at the end of my day, usually I try to get home by six or seven, spend time with my kids, reflect on my day, spend some time with my husband and have dinner. And then I usually work a little bit more, for about 30 minutes before heading for heading to bed and trying to relax, read something and fall asleep at 9:30.

Brian:

Do you collapse after all of that? Or do you just settle in nicely and drift off to sleep? You’re very, very intentional, very regimented, obviously, about your schedule, but I believe—and I’m the same way. I won’t say that we operate at the same level of, of intensity or intentionality, but I’m very structured in my day. How is it at the end of the day for you?

Kirsten:

I think I kind of go between…when I put my kids to bed, they, each of them, ask that either my husband or I, we do a rotation where we lay in bed with each of them for like 5 to 10 minutes and talk to them about what’s going on, and they call it their snuggle time. And I would say that usually what happens is I haven’t eaten dinner yet. I usually do this snuggle with them at like 7:15, 7:30. And then that’s when I’m like, oh my God, I’m so tired. And then I get up and I have dinner and that’s really the bad part of the cycle. That’s what I’m not proud of is that I probably could just go to bed then and be really, really happy. But then, I have dinner, I talk to my husband, I get back on the computer, I do some work and then I go to bed. So usually I could collapse by 8:15, then it’s that whole 9:15, 9:30. And then actually I think my brain reactivates so then it’s actually harder to fall asleep. I’d be better off just going to bed at 8:30.

Brian:

My kids are a lot older than yours, but during our snuggle time, back in the day when our were the ages of your kids, and we have four children, my snuggle time would be reading about half the book and then I’d wake up about three hours later and realized that I had fallen asleep reading a book. So I applaud you for being able to get through snuggle time without collapsing. You mentioned the show, and obviously I talked about it in the introduction, last year you were cast on Million Dollar Listing New York. The show already boasted eight successful seasons before you joined, and features some pretty heavy hitters in the New York real estate market. What is it like being on a hit television show and how awesome is it being on a show that enables you to shine a spotlight on your passion?

Kirsten:

It’s been really, really exciting. When I decided to cast on the show in the first place I did it because the fact that I had been in the business for a long time, and I felt that I wasn’t probably going to be interested in staying in the business unless I took my business to the next level. And when this opportunity came my way, I thought this is probably the way that I was meant to take my business to the next level. I’ve been sticking it out, slugging it out, being an agent, not being a top agent. I’d done a lot of business and I could never complain about the business I had done, but for my own personal standards, it was never where I wanted to be. I think I always pictured myself being one of the top agents in New York City at some point, and between my back-to-back pregnancies—my kids are two years apart and there’s three of them—it was a super busy time. And I always felt like there was a setback and there was always a reason why my business wasn’t going to be able to be something that I focused a hundred percent on. And so now I feel like the show helped me to say, hey, like I’ve had the success, I’m poised to really take it to the next level. And I’m going to use this as an excuse and validation to give myself the support that I need to be able to take it to the next level. And what I think people expect is that…when I ask people, what do you think is the percentage of business that I get [inaudible]? And everyone’s like, oh, I bet it’s like 80%, is it 50%? 80% that you must get just from rich people calling you, rich people, calling you to have you be their agent. They think I just have phone calls all day, every day from people. And the truth is, is that the business for Million Dollar Listing today is probably like 2% of my actual business. The rest of my business is still the business that comes from past clients. It’s from every other lead generation technique that I use with my team. And we do have some incredible stuff in the pipeline that I can attribute directly to the show. And then we also have things in the pipeline that I can attribute getting it to an element of it being the publicity that comes from Million Dollar Listing, but it’s more of just another piece of a larger brand. So what I really appreciated about the show is it taught me a lot about myself. It pushed me so much to put myself out there, which I wouldn’t have done. And also to embrace that there is something clearly special about me, because I was selected when there had been years of there not being a female on the show. So I would say for me, it was this validation that I should’ve given myself ten years ago, that I needed to hear from Bravo to really treat myself like a star. And I would tell every woman, or man or anybody, who feels that they should be at a different level than they are. And if it has to do with saying, oh, the reason I’m not there is because I haven’t hit this number, and if I hit this number then I would get the assistant or if I hit that number, I would invest in my business. I would say, just invest in it now. At this point, like with the way that the world is going and the way that the cost of money, and the way that startups are investing in themselves, it’s like, things are upside down. You can no longer look at things the way that you used to with profit. And the fact that, oh, I have to make X before I invest in myself in this way. It’s like, that’s not the way the world is anymore. You need to take the leap of faith. And I wish I’d done that with myself because I’d be in a different place than I am right now. And I’m in a great place, but I’d probably be at two, three X of where I am right now.

Brian:

Yeah, I think we can get caught up in the what ifs and, and I wish that you had that realization prior to being on a hit television show. I guess the other part of it though, is when you think about now influence that you have not only with your team, but with others through the show, and hopefully there will be a season ten of the show, through a book. And I can see multiple books. I was thinking that the whole health and fitness in your commitment to that area of life, that could be a separate book. And that’s probably not the book that you’ve written or that you’re pitching at this point. But I can see a whole series of products and programs that because of the audience you have, because of the influence you have, you’re now able to add value in that way. But hopefully, through the lessons that you’ve learned, people will see those and it will help them to maybe shortcut. I mean, I seem to have always been the one to touch the hot stove, but what I learned in life is that you don’t always have to touch the hot stove yourself. You don’t always have to learn the lessons yourself, but you can in learn, in fact, about what other people are doing, either what they’re doing successfully and try to model that success, or maybe where they fell short and we try to avoid those pitfalls. So, you are a great role model for business people. I mean, certainly for women, certainly for young women. I look forward to my daughters listening to the podcast and watching the YouTube show and learning from you. But even beyond that, you now have an audience that you didn’t have before you were on the show. I would love to…we could talk for hours probably about the show. And, I confess that I did binge watch all 16 episodes of the show. Now I may have fast forwarded through it through some of Ryan’s stuff and the Frederick stuff. But I watched every second of every episode that you were on, every part that you were on. And it was fascinating, learning about pricing. And I wanted to just ask you about one thing, and it’s the psychology of real estate negotiation, and I’m hoping that you can shed some light on it for me and for our listeners and viewers. One thing I picked up on, and I laughed when you were talking—I almost asked you this at that time, when you’re talking about your mom moving you from Minnesota to the east coast and saying, oh, this is going to be great. And it’s exactly the question that I was going to ask you about that I picked up on from the show. Kirsten, you often start out when you’re meeting with buyers, I guess, or sellers, you probably do it with everybody, but you often start out by saying that you have really good news or that you have great news before you share something that might not be perceived as good news or great news, by the seller, for example, if you have an offer that’s way lower than what they’re looking for. Help us to understand why phrasing is so important, why language is so important and maybe share a couple other negotiating strategies or hacks that you’ve obviously mastered.

Kirsten:

Well, I would say pre-framing is really important with everything. I think that, getting people into the right state when you’re talking to them is super important. I have listened to a lot of tapes about what you should say when you’re negotiating and how you should bring people to a place of pain before you have salvation. I mean, there’s so many ways to look at trying to pre-frame a difficult conversation. And so one of the things that I think is almost a European technique, because I think I find it less in the US, is to not dive right into business with people. I find that, as a New Yorker, it’s super tempting—I have three minutes to make a phone call and I go straight into it and I’m like ripping the band-aid off. And I’m just trying to get it off my chest. And what I do find is it does help to make people feel that at least it’s not so transactional. I had a call with a developer yesterday, for example, it’s an experimental product that we’re selling of theirs. And it’s something that is taking awhile to get to where we want it to be. We were unsure about pricing because we’d never sold this kind of asset before. And so we probably started a little bit high and now we’ve adjusted and we’re selling at what is probably pretty much fair value. And I’m sure that pricing will go up over time. But the key here is it’s not just about calling and saying, hi, I know that you’re pissed off at my sales team, but let’s hash it out. It’s like, no, hey, let’s have a real conversation about some other things that are going on, what we’re seeing in the market, how you’re doing, how your portfolio is doing, how this asset relates to your portfolio, how are your investors doing? Could we get in front of them? Would you like us to have a conversation with them? And this isn’t something that’s in negotiation, but the thing is it’s larger conversation that will affect future negotiations. So I think you’re always, pre-framing your negotiations. And so what I think a lot of agents do is they don’t pre-frame, pre negotiation. What they do is they just wait for the number to come in and then it’s like a fresh conversation. They’ve never spoken to them about the fact that it’s most likely that they’re getting a low-ball offer. And so it’s like, everybody’s like, well, screw that person. That’s a low ball bid. Like, what’s wrong with you? I’m not responding to that. Whereas if there was more conversation at the beginning about, hey, I’m working on this property. Their bidders came in at five, but they ultimately came to five nine. I was able to keep them at the table. We worked on some other terms that were interesting to them. So, I’m really big into conversations, staying in front of the client, making sure that you keep them informed. When I was waiting tables, one of the big things that came away from waiting tables at high-end restaurants was making sure that you are present because if stuff comes late and you keep coming in and saying, hey, I realize your steak isn’t here yet. I know it’s late. Can I get you something in the short term? It’s held up in the kitchen. What can I do? Let’s talk, can I get you another martini? Whatever it is, people are going to be way happier than if you just disappear and you show up late and there’s no managed expectations, but if you’re in front of them all the time and they know that it’s not your fault, and you’re just the messenger, it’s a whole different relationship. And those are the situations where your clients come away and they’re raving fans. So I would say negotiation techniques, everybody’s got their own negotiation technique. I wouldn’t call myself the best negotiator because I still feel like I’m always struggling to make sure that I’m not giving away too much. But I think the key is it’s really important to be pre-framing, it’s really important to be keeping in front of your clients before there’s even a negotiation so they have an idea of probably what’s most likely to come to them. Then I think the other thing is working with terms, making sure that it’s not just about a back and forth bicker on numbers or a bartering kind of a thing. It’s making sure that you’re also talking about the terms of the actual deal so that it can be less focused on the numbers, because sometimes you’re probably going to get there in some form, but also the overall deal so that you could package it in a way to your client that makes them feel like, okay, well maybe I didn’t get this number that I wanted, but at least I can live here for the next six months and get my cash right away. Or at least it’s a cash deal. And we don’t have to deal with XYZ because so-and-so had a contingency. That’s kind of my view of negotiations. And then of course there’s understanding as much as you can about who you’re dealing with, so that you are able to see if you can squeeze out something extra because you know that there’s something that’s important to them that might have to do with the terms.

Brian:

That last thing that you just said was something that I was going to bring up, because it seems to me that at the core, you really value people and that you try to understand them. Stephen Covey, one of his seven habits is, seek to understand and then to be understood. And when you talk about the bigger picture and getting the context, it goes back to intentionality too, right? Because it takes extra effort to understand a person’s particular situation or maybe have appreciation for other investments that they have and how that real estate property fits into the bigger picture. I think, at the core, it’s really about valuing people and making an effort to understand people’s situation. And that’s not a gimmick, that’s not a shtick, that’s not something you would learn in Tom Ferry’s real estate negotiating class, it’s something that you learn as a human being. And I’m guessing, I mean, it’s a little bit of a stereotype, but I’m guessing that in New York, or in any place like that, not everybody is doing that to the extent that you are.

Kirsten:

I mean, I would agree with you most likely, I would say, yeah, it’s really important to build rapport before negotiations. And I think that that involves a lot of communication.

Brian:

One of your co-stars on the show, Ryan, was quoted as saying, “Kirsten is a power broker…” and this was strong language. “Kirsten is a power broker. She’s a hustler, she’s a grinder. She crushes it and does every type of deal imaginable. And she’s a mom of all these three kids”. I just started laughing out loud. It seems like that’s something that somebody who doesn’t have kids…she’s a mom of all these kids. Like you have 20 of them. But you have three young children and we’ve talked about them and you’re at the top of your game professionally. How do you do it all? And what advice do you have for moms, or even for dads, who want to achieve excellence, both in their career and in their family life?

Kirsten:

Well, it’s tough because I think everybody looks at what I’m doing and it’s like, oh wow, she really does it all and it looks so easy and nothing ever is a total disaster, which I think is great. And that’s clearly something that, I think even as a personal brand, I probably should work on and do a little bit more behind the scenes of the actual chaos, because let’s just say it’s not always easy. And then, what I have found that’s helped me the most, as far as creating brain space and really being happier in trying to do it all, or I would say not do it all, but just do what is the most important for me, and then outsource the rest, is making sure that I’m leveraging others. So even when it comes to like my kid’s medical forms and making sure that their schedules are perfect, I spent years doing the spreadsheets myself and I no longer do that. I’ve realized that that’s not my highest and best use. I’d rather be spending the time with my kids. I’d rather come home from school or come home from work, when they’re home from school and be able to just go hang out with them instead of staying up late, reworking my kids’ schedules and trying to find activities for them to do when there’s no school on Veteran’s Day. That’s something that I had to really embrace and give up. And again, is the person who does it so much better than me at doing it. Maybe not, and maybe not even as good as me, but that’s okay because it’s not me doing it. And I’m able to free up the brain space for things that I really, really love. And I think that a lot of the parents that I speak to, especially mothers, they’re, first of all, a lot of them are not treating real estate like a full-time job. They’re treating it like a part-time job where they can have part-time childcare and they can bootstrap the whole thing themselves. And that’s fine, but I think you can only get so far when you’re treating this business that way. I think it’s a full-time business. I think it’s a full-time job. And I think that when I speak to the women that I know that are truly executives of maybe Fortune 500 companies, they have the kind of childcare that is like seven days a week, 24/7, and they have a lot of things that other people are doing for them to make sure that they’re able to be present at home with their children. And that was something that I kind of had to embrace. And I had to find a couple of women that I could actually look up to that do that. And it was really important for me because I didn’t have those kinds of people to look up to in my life in the first ten years of my career. I just only knew other women who were like, wow, you still do a lot. That’s incredible. And I was like, yeah, that’s also because I’m just crazy. But now I’m like, no, why the, one of the reasons I do a lot is because of the fact that I’ve decided to outsource it and just be happy because you can’t take it with you. And in the end it will all work out.

Brian:

And there, again, hopefully you can be a model for others, whether it’s on your team or just people who have access to you or exposure to you can see the kinds of things that are working for you. And maybe like you didn’t have that reference before, you give people the reference and help them to be more effective, more efficient, just live a higher quality of life in every area of life. What does the future hold for you, Kirsten? What are you working on right now, both personally and professionally, and what are a couple of longer term goals?

Kirsten:

Personally? I mean, it’s really just making sure that my kids are happy and in the right schools and doing well in school and personally happy and that they have hobbies. My daughter, my second grade daughter, making sure that she’s enjoying reading. I mean, like those are little things that are just like, seem really simple, but are actually a really big deal these days, making sure that your kids are actually reading well in a way that is the way that they should be reading and are enjoying books. That’s like a focus for me. What I would say my personal goals are, always being in physical and mental shape is also super important to me. And that’s something that I feel like I still spend a ton of extra time on. I’m coached, I do acupuncture once a week, which I’m very vocal about being important, workout and taking care of my body. I am really, really sensitive to how many toxins I put into my body, and that’s all stuff that I would say are personal goals. Professional goals, I would really like to be doing more public speaking. That’s something I’m really pursuing right now. And I’m working on getting some of my first bigger gigs so that I’m able to have those videotaped so that I’m able to get more opportunities like that. And I’m going to be speaking at the Greater Boston Association of Realtors Conference in March of 2022, which is very, very exciting, as a keynote speaker. And that’s really actually a dream of mine. That’s something that’s a dream that I was never going to tell anybody out loud before I was even cast in the show. But this idea of being on stage with like one of those little microphones, talking to everybody, doing Ted talks, like that’s a dream. So that’s something I’ve always really wanted to do. So that’s a huge professional goal for me. Of course, my book proposal’s ready, putting, finishing touches on that. I’m working with some great consultants to make sure that that is something that’s attractive to others. And of course, building that following involves getting out there and putting myself out there. That, of course, involves everything from podcasts to speaking, to blogging and then making sure that we have real incredible content on my website. It’s been a huge push for me. So we are creating a group called Moms of Real Estate, where I’m going to be doing some Instagram live, guest blogging with other mothers who are in real estate, to create a community that’s stronger that way, because I do think that’s something that is different. Being a mom and a real estate agent is different than just being a real estate agent. You have different demands and how can we do better in that area of giving support to mothers who are real estate, because it’s such a crazy industry and crazy job. And then of course, we have some really lofty goals that are very, I think, achievable for 2022, for my team. We’re already doing our 2022 business planning, we have our final business planning meeting today as a team, and that’s really, really exciting. And I think that that’s going to make a really big difference for what happens for us in 2022. We had an incredible year in 2021 for a nine month old team. I think we’re going to do $80-$85 million in sales this year, which is great for a brand new team and especially with less than a year to do it. And we’d love to double that next year. And I think it’s really possible with the agents that we have and in the manpower.

Brian:

You have no shortage of opportunities, that’s for sure. And I can’t wait to see how it all plays out. Hopefully that’ll include a season ten of Million Dollar Listing. Kristen, thanks so much for being on the show. It’s been great getting to know you and I really appreciate our conversation.

Kirsten:

It was great talking, thank you so much for having me. And if you want to find me, I’m on Instagram at Kirsten.Jordan, and then there’s also my website, which is KirstenJordan.com.

Brian:

Awesome, so then we’ll also include those in the show notes, all of your contact information and more information from the show. Thanks for tuning into Life Excellence. Please support the show by subscribing sharing it with others, posting on social media about today’s show with New York real estate. Power broker Kirsten Jordan, and leave a rating and review. You can also learn more about me at BrianBartes.com. Until next time, dream big dreams and make each day your masterpiece.